Three Powerful Books

[_huckelberry]

Beastie should be remembered with respect. She stood against the criticism and pursued a careful investigation of the archeological information. She did not think the Book of Mormon fit the realities of it supposed location.

I think if a person sets aside the 19th century coloration in the story and decides to give the miraculous the benefit of the doubt one can see more clearly what evidence shows the book is fiction.

Beastie discussion with Brant Gardner started on ZLMB and went through several cycles.Too bad it hasnt been collected , at least to my knowledge.

[_huckelberry]

Was there any room for Nephites? My belief in the Book of Mormon came to an end before assistance from DNA information. I was reading up on the development of corn in Central America. There are other evidences of people there but the corn story showed settled people living on those areas for a long time before and after the Book of Mormon times. I do not see a story by people crossing the sea to settle on this side would become kings and independent rulers without serious consideration of the people living here.

Brant proposed that people like me were not as familiar with old books and how they can manipulate history. It is not an area of professional expertise for me but I am familiar with a few old books. The Bible is a good example of how history as told by later centuries can obscure what happened.The relationship between Jewish and Canaanite religion is not made very clear in the Old Testament but the problem does not become completely invisible.

[_honorentheos]

I think MG owes an explanation for why disbelief in the possibilty of Nephites should be equated to being closed to belief in God. I believe at least three participants in this thread are Christian who nonetheless do not believe the Book of Mormon is historical or that Nephites were real. Yet he insists that the issue comes down to people first rejecting God which biases a person against the Book of Mormon. I believe most of us who disagree argue instead the evidence for the Book of Mormon not being a historical record is simply overwhelming the claims that it is historical.

[_Physics Guy]

If anyone who was willing to believe in God were thereby inclined to accept the Book of Mormon, the majority of the human population would be LDS.

[_Themis]

Yet he insists that the issue comes down to people first rejecting God which biases a person against the Book of Mormon.

And he avoids questions about how people can be believing LDS, have read these apologetic's, and yet end up rejecting Book of Mormon historicity.

[_mentalgymnast]

If anyone who was willing to believe in God were thereby inclined to accept the Book of Mormon, the majority of the human population would be LDS.

That’s not what I’m saying. It’s rather simple. No God, no Book of Mormon given by the hand of God/angels. If there is a God the door is open for belief in the Book of Mormon. But not by necessity. Again, it’s rather simple.

Isn’t it rather obvious that there are at least a few God believers out there that don’t take the Book of Mormon seriously and/or believe that it’s God sanctioned/ordained?

It’s rather elementary that I’m even having to say this.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Yet he insists that the issue comes down to people first rejecting God which biases a person against the Book of Mormon.

And he avoids questions about how people can be believing LDS, have read these apologetic's, and yet end up rejecting Book of Mormon historicity.

I don’t think this is the first time that I’ve said that I fully understand that some people will read the apologetics and end up rejecting Book of Mormon historicity. I don’t know that that’s even open to question.

That doesn’t make them right.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

I think MG owes an explanation for why disbelief in the possibilty of Nephites should be equated to being closed to belief in God. I believe at least three participants in this thread are Christian who nonetheless do not believe the Book of Mormon is historical or that Nephites were real. Yet he insists that the issue comes down to people first rejecting God which biases a person against the Book of Mormon. I believe most of us who disagree argue instead the evidence for the Book of Mormon not being a historical record is simply overwhelming the claims that it is historical.

It may be important to remember, however, that as you’re writing this you’re writing as a disbeliever in a creator God. At least if I’m not mistaken.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

why does that not surprise me. :rolleyes:

It was Pahoran-esque behavior from multiple posters, many of whom surprised me with their vitriol. Genuinely personal, vile comments were aimed at her that went ignored by the mods. Pointing it out resulted in threats of banning. It was bizarre. It also showed that she had hit a deep nerve, too. I think many people who spend time defending the Book of Mormon online in forums like these viewed Brants work as unassailable. But also, I think it has a certain last line of defense quality to it, too. So when it was assaulted and shown to be quite vulnerable, the response wasn't measured and calm.

It was by Brant though. He is a scholar and a gentleman.

Regards,
MG

[_honorentheos]

I think MG owes an explanation for why disbelief in the possibilty of Nephites should be equated to being closed to belief in God. I believe at least three participants in this thread are Christian who nonetheless do not believe the Book of Mormon is historical or that Nephites were real. Yet he insists that the issue comes down to people first rejecting God which biases a person against the Book of Mormon. I believe most of us who disagree argue instead the evidence for the Book of Mormon not being a historical record is simply overwhelming the claims that it is historical.

It may be important to remember, however, that as you’re writing this you’re writing as a disbeliever in a creator God. At least if I’m not mistaken.

Regards,
MG

If your argument has to lean so hard on people losing/lacking belief in God to explain why you ignore the very clear points made that it's the evidence against Nephites not God at issue here, well. I think you know why you keep trying to prop it up over and over when that crutch gets taken away but don't have another leg to put under it of your own.