Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what?????s right matters.

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
_Temp. Admin.
_Emeritus
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:50 am

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _Temp. Admin. »

(Dr. Shades here, using our "Temp. Admin." account.)
honorentheos wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:15 pm
So when he says the result, "forever limited the progression of (his) military career" you read the emphasis on his being "picked on", hence calling him a snowflake?
Yes.
But had you been more aware of how barriers now in his eligibility for promotion aren't limited to Trump being in office but can effectively throw him off the promotion rails and force him out?
Not necessarily. I don't see how the barriers to his promotion WON'T vanish into thin air as soon as Trump is gone.
And with that knowledge you might then have focused on the latter half of the statement?
Not really, because life as a field grade officer in the Army is posh and comfortable. All red carpets are perpetually rolled out for you, you live high on the hog, and enlisted people are kissing your ass on an hourly, if not a minute-ly basis. Hell, life is sweet enough as a lieutenant colonel without ever needing to promote ever again (but see below).
And that would be rightly called, "lacking perspective"?
I suppose so, but I think it would more accurate to label it "lacking pertinent information"--information that Lt. Col. Vindman himself owed it to his readers to provide. To wit, I was unaware that a field grade officer HAD to promote or else be forced out of the military. I thought one could simply stay in one's current rank if one felt like it (see above). Knowing that he chose to retire now as opposed to being forcibly, uh, forced out later alters my perspective quite a bit. . . but I'm still at a loss as to why he couldn't just wait until Trump left office, become the darling of the Democratic establishment, and then shoot up the ranks to lieutenant general.
The reality is, when I read your comment it aligned quite closely with some of the Facebook friends from my military days who are of a type. I'm not sure the best way to put that type into words. But one characteristic they share is being someone who, years after enlisting, enjoyed the authority of telling a civilian about going through Basic like it was a war story.
How often do you see me talking about Boot Camp on here? Especially like it was a war story?
They are also the people on my friends list you wouldn't be able to miss their prior service if you tried though they got out years ago.
Of all the comments you've seen me make here, what percent of them earned me my place in that category?
So I used it in my response to your calling LTC Vindman a snowflake. I didn't think you'd take it as bait. It was intended as a suggestion you were being a bit...well, choose what you think the best word is for that. I'd call it embarrassing but that doesn't seem to be the case with folks of that type.
Do you now have some of your own perspective regarding my point of view when I made my original comment?
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _honorentheos »

Temp. Admin. wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:52 pm
Do you now have some of your own perspective regarding my point of view when I made my original comment?
My perspective on your post hasn't changed for the better over the course of this thread. Quite the opposite.

Out of curiosity do you think he did the right thing in reporting his concerns and ultimately coming forward to testify at the impeachment hearings?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Temp. Admin.
_Emeritus
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:50 am

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _Temp. Admin. »

honorentheos wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:53 am
Temp. Admin. wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:52 pm
Do you now have some of your own perspective regarding my point of view when I made my original comment?
My perspective on your post hasn't changed for the better over the course of this thread. Quite the opposite.
In that case, please tell me where I went wrong. . . unless, of course, this is just another example of you purposefully antagonizing me.
Out of curiosity do you think he did the right thing in reporting his concerns and ultimately coming forward to testify at the impeachment hearings?
Yes. Do you?
_Morley
_Emeritus
Posts: 3542
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _Morley »

Temp. Admin. wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:38 pm
I said that if he had endured a career as an enlisted Marine, then a little bit of so-called "bullying"--in the form of Trump and his allies merely blocking his hopes for advancement, of all things, especially when Trump and his allies are soon to be gone anyway--wouldn't have intimidated him at all.
Shades, your argument is that Marine Basic Training makes a person more resilient (read: less of a snowflake) than if that same person went to Jump School, Ranger School, and then was a combat veteran who received a Purple Heart. Okay.
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _honorentheos »

Temp. Admin. wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:22 pm
honorentheos wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:53 am
My perspective on your post hasn't changed for the better over the course of this thread. Quite the opposite.
In that case, please tell me where I went wrong. . . unless, of course, this is just another example of you purposefully antagonizing me.
Which time? When you called him a snowflake because he hadn't gone through Marine Boot Camp after reading an article about his losing his career over having done the right thing, and doing so in a classy, patriotic manner putting American ideals front and center? When you responded to information about the Army Officer promotion process with confabulatory reworkings of your mistaken position it was about his being bullied? When you said he should have led with a statement about taking one for the team? Take anything you've said and odds are pretty good it is heading in the wrong direction.
Out of curiosity do you think he did the right thing in reporting his concerns and ultimately coming forward to testify at the impeachment hearings?
Yes. Do you?
Do you even read this board?
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Temp. Admin.
_Emeritus
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:50 am

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _Temp. Admin. »

Morley wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:55 pm
Temp. Admin. wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:38 pm
I said that if he had endured a career as an enlisted Marine, then a little bit of so-called "bullying"--in the form of Trump and his allies merely blocking his hopes for advancement, of all things, especially when Trump and his allies are soon to be gone anyway--wouldn't have intimidated him at all.
Shades, your argument is that Marine Basic Training makes a person more resilient (read: less of a snowflake) than if that same person went to Jump School, Ranger School, and then was a combat veteran who received a Purple Heart. Okay.
Do you know the difference between "a career as an enlisted Marine," which is what I actually wrote, vs. "Marine Basic Training," which is what, for whatever unfathomable reason, you're pretending I wrote?

If so, what's the difference, in your own words?
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _honorentheos »

I hear from friends who "are" Marines (once a Marine always a Marine) that it can become a funny cult thing one picks up after being told you are dog crap over and over, then after Boot one is no longer dog crap but a Marine unlike all the other pieces of dog crap who could never hack it - meaning everyone who hasn't been through Boot.

Most Marines I interacted with while in the service had enough time and experience behind them to see the cult for what it was...while also believing it was built on some element of truth. Gotta love Marines. They do get it worse than any other service so if.that's what ya get to hang onto to justify the amount of suckiness involved, then amen brother Marine. Amen.

The few times I've been asked by someone about potentially joining the military and seeking advice, I've told them to look closely at the Air Force for a job that interests them. If you're smart enough to be weighing your options, definitely go Air Force.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Morley
_Emeritus
Posts: 3542
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _Morley »

Morley wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:55 pm
Temp. Admin. wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:38 pm
I said that if he had endured a career as an enlisted Marine, then a little bit of so-called "bullying"--in the form of Trump and his allies merely blocking his hopes for advancement, of all things, especially when Trump and his allies are soon to be gone anyway--wouldn't have intimidated him at all.
Shades, your argument is that Marine Basic Training makes a person more resilient (read: less of a snowflake) than if that same person went to Jump School, Ranger School, and then was a combat veteran who received a Purple Heart. Okay.
Ha! I misread that. Apparently I’m an idiot. I’ll answer more completely later. But this apology can’t wait.

Sincere apologies.
_Morley
_Emeritus
Posts: 3542
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _Morley »

Temp. Admin. wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:38 pm
I said that if he had endured a career as an enlisted Marine, then a little bit of so-called "bullying"--in the form of Trump and his allies merely blocking his hopes for advancement, of all things, especially when Trump and his allies are soon to be gone anyway--wouldn't have intimidated him at all.
Shades, I'm curious. How did you arrive at this opinion? Research? Experience? Gut feeling?

.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: Alexander Vindman: Coming forward ended my career. I still believe doing what’s right matters.

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

If you want to understand our electorate, and why someone like Trump has a better than good chance at re-election, then read this dog crap article and then head down to the comments section:

https://thebl.com/politics/lt-col-vindm ... quiry.html

I would advocate for a Constitutional amendment that’d require people to take a high school-level aptitude test in order to vote. We can no longer afford this amount of dumbshittery to control our collective future. It’s... like subgenius and ldsfaqshad had 300 alt accounts and loaded up the comments section.

- Doc
Post Reply