The Idea of Secession

[Cultellus]

Doc, how would you distinguish the motivation between doing one’s military job, and the motivation for enlisting? Your experience with this topic, whether it is based on your sole experience or that of a million soldiers is exponentially higher than mine.

I can’t even narrow down my own motivations for going to college and going on a mission. I damn sure can’t speculate accurately on the motivations of millions of enlisted men and women. I would be spit-balling and insulting if I tried.

Anyways, I am curious how motivations change once someone is in the belly of the beast and not a wide-eyed enrollee. Or, is it even possible to simplify such a vast spectrum?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Doc, how would you distinguish the motivation between doing one’s military job, and the motivation for enlisting? Your experience with this topic, whether it is based on your sole experience or that of a million soldiers is exponentially higher than mine.

I can’t even narrow down my own motivations for going to college and going on a mission. I damn sure can’t speculate accurately on the motivations of millions of enlisted men and women. I would be spit-balling and insulting if I tried.

Anyways, I am curious how motivations change once someone is in the belly of the beast and not a wide-eyed enrollee. Or, is it even possible to simplify such a vast spectrum?

Well, obviously I can only speak to my own motivations and hundreds if not thousands of servicemembers I’d talked to throughout my service. Eventually these conversations begin to exhibit patterns or recurring themes. If I had to guess most young enlistees fall somewhere between wanting to serve their country, and this was the mechanism kind of set up for them to do that, and financial incentives such as the GI Bill or a job that often comes with a bonus. It was kind of a mix of the two, heavy emphasis on serving one’s country, though. Most of the college grads that enlisted were motivated by the Army paying off their student loans. A certain percentage came in with the idea they wanted to make a career out of it, and I’d say most of those guys came from a ‘military family’. And then you get a healthy dose of enlistees that enlisted to do something because they weren’t quite sure what they wanted to do, but they were young and it provided an avenue for something they themselves weren’t quite sure about.

In my case when I came back from my mission I wanted to serve my country, because Peru showed me that America was worth serving. My dad talked me out of it because he did a tour in the Navy and thought the people were garbage human beings. He also hated being controlled, so that was a factor. A few years later I couldn’t take it any more and went into a recruiting station and within the hour I was signing on the dotted line. I had zero concept of the military and its culture, so I was basically a blank slate. It just so happened that the MOS I ended up choosing, simply because the recruiter flipped through his binder and suggested a job, came with a bonus. In fact, I couldn’t believe the money the government was throwing at people, it seemed obscene at the time.

Once you’re in service, and you become familiar with the organization and military culture that’s when you start to really figure out what they have to offer and then you become more involved in your own career if you stay in. So, it’s this weird psychological and emotional state where you kind of hate it, love it, and work it, if that makes sense. Working it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re looking out for #1, though there are plenty who do, but rather you’re expected to manage your career track and then pursue it. Those who do generally have a better experience than those who kind of phone it in. That’s the cultural aspect of the military when it comes to a professional fighting force, so it doesn’t mean people are taking advantage of the service, but rather they’re expected to self-manage to a high degree. I suspect that’s why so many get out either after one enlistment or before they cross the ten-year mark. They’re not overly invested in a career, which you have to be if you’re going to make it to retirement.

Did I get close to answering your questions? Let me know if I missed the mark.

- Doc

[Cultellus]

Doc, how would you distinguish the motivation between doing one’s military job, and the motivation for enlisting? Your experience with this topic, whether it is based on your sole experience or that of a million soldiers is exponentially higher than mine.

I can’t even narrow down my own motivations for going to college and going on a mission. I damn sure can’t speculate accurately on the motivations of millions of enlisted men and women. I would be spit-balling and insulting if I tried.

Anyways, I am curious how motivations change once someone is in the belly of the beast and not a wide-eyed enrollee. Or, is it even possible to simplify such a vast spectrum?

Well, obviously I can only speak to my own motivations and hundreds if not thousands of servicemembers I’d talked to throughout my service. Eventually these conversations begin to exhibit patterns or recurring themes. If I had to guess most young enlistees fall somewhere between wanting to serve their country, and this was the mechanism kind of set up for them to do that, and financial incentives such as the GI Bill or a job that often comes with a bonus. It was kind of a mix of the two, heavy emphasis on serving one’s country, though. Most of the college grads that enlisted were motivated by the Army paying off their student loans. A certain percentage came in with the idea they wanted to make a career out of it, and I’d say most of those guys came from a ‘military family’. And then you get a healthy dose of enlistees that enlisted to do something because they weren’t quite sure what they wanted to do, but they were young and it provided an avenue for something they themselves weren’t quite sure about.

In my case when I came back from my mission I wanted to serve my country, because Peru showed me that America was worth serving. My dad talked me out of it because he did a tour in the Navy and thought the people were garbage human beings. He also hated being controlled, so that was a factor. A few years later I couldn’t take it any more and went into a recruiting station and within the hour I was signing on the dotted line. I had zero concept of the military and its culture, so I was basically a blank slate. It just so happened that the MOS I ended up choosing, simply because the recruiter flipped through his binder and suggested a job, came with a bonus. In fact, I couldn’t believe the money the government was throwing at people, it seemed obscene at the time.

Once you’re in service, and you become familiar with the organization and military culture that’s when you start to really figure out what they have to offer and then you become more involved in your own career if you stay in. So, it’s this weird psychological and emotional state where you kind of hate it, love it, and work it, if that makes sense. Working it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re looking out for #1, though there are plenty who do, but rather you’re expected to manage your career track and then pursue it. Those who do generally have a better experience than those who kind of phone it in. That’s the cultural aspect of the military when it comes to a professional fighting force, so it doesn’t mean people are taking advantage of the service, but rather they’re expected to self-manage to a high degree. I suspect that’s why so many get out either after one enlistment or before they cross the ten-year mark. They’re not overly invested in a career, which you have to be if you’re going to make it to retirement.

Did I get close to answering your questions? Let me know if I missed the mark.

- Doc

Absolutely on the mark. Again, I have zero experience with enlisted people, other than a brother and friends. I have more experience with veterans, which is a topic for another day and another layer of anguish or pain or frustration.

You describe this selfless point in the enlistment process, where one has this ideal or attraction to service. And by service, I mean putting something or someone else's priorities way way way TF higher than one's own. I get that this can be the good ol' USA and patriotism, but I just see that kind of motivation wearing off after working in the ugly trenches and gritty dirty military jobs. At some point, a soldier or chef or doctor or truck driver gets to the point where they are just looking out for themselves, and they are their own priority. Not the country. Not the Army. But goddamn, they just got to get through the day or the deployment or the next 4 years. To hell with the USA. I do not say that in a critical way. I mean that respectfully. At some point, all the service and selfless ambitions have to get set aside and people have to look out for Number One.

The short version of that is that anyone who went into it with at least some selfish motivations, or learned them along the way, is probably more balanced or better off than anyone that attempts to sustain an altruistic selfless approach to war, the military, and systems.

Am I even close to understanding your point? Approaching understanding?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Sure, I think those are valid observations. Life has a way of impacting one’s perspective and motivations.

- Doc