RFM v. Midnight Mormons—Debate

[Kishkumen]

Exactly. And he's not very invested in apologetics. He's only interested in it as far as it benefits him personally.

Just look how bored he is when he's not speaking.

I want to like Kwaku, and then he says so many slimy things that it makes it impossible for me to like him.

[Kishkumen]

Kwaku really showed his ignorance of common decency and understanding of basic American law by attacking RFM for defending a certain person.

I didn't think it was possible to respect Kwaku less but he managed to do it.

Yeah, that was straight out of the Mopologetic playbook. Anything to score points, even running down the honorable task of defending the accused in America.

[Kishkumen]

Do people here think that Consig has a duty to provide a landing point for those who leave? Does he need to start an alternative religion or organization?

I think they attack consiglieri for the things they want to attack Bill Reel for but can’t because Bill Reel is not there.

[drumdude]

Kwaku really showed his ignorance of common decency and understanding of basic American law by attacking RFM for defending a certain person.

I didn't think it was possible to respect Kwaku less but he managed to do it.

Yeah, that was straight out of the Mopologetic playbook. Anything to score points, even running down the honorable task of defending the accused in America.

It also shows the incredible disgusting lengths that apologists have gone to, to dig through RFM's personal and professional life looking for ANYTHING that might show him in a negative light.

The fact that THAT is what they came up with speaks immensely to RFM's upstanding character.

[Kishkumen]

It also shows the incredible disgusting lengths that apologists have gone to, to dig through RFM's personal and professional life looking for ANYTHING that might show him in a negative light.

The fact that THAT is what they came up with speaks immensely to RFM's upstanding character.

I must have missed the part where RFM attacked Kwaku for holding dance parties in the middle of a global pandemic.

[Kishkumen]

In short, yes, Kwaku is not a decent person.

[drumdude]

Another huge foundation for Midnight Mormons argument is that the church is completely different than the one we all were a part of 10 years ago. That they have never experienced the church causing them to feel guilt, shame, all the problematic doctrines.

It's basically gaslighting.

They even claimed it's a regular part of fast and testimony meetings now for people to get up and claim they don't know the church is true.

[Kishkumen]

Another huge foundation for Midnight Mormons argument is that the church is completely different than the one we all were a part of 10 years ago. That they have never experienced the church causing them to feel guilt, shame, all the problematic doctrines.

It's basically gaslighting.

They even claimed it's a regular part of fast and testimony meetings now for people to get up and claim they don't know the church is true.

The old “not in my ward” argument. The simple fact is that the whole church is predicated on the authority of Russell M. Nelson as God’s prophet and Joseph Smith’s successor. He is not, nor do I think that there is much of an argument to be made in favor of that position. If you want to go to the temple, to get exalted to the highest degree of glory, you as an LDS person would have to agree that Russell M. Nelson is the only man who holds all the keys. It is simply not true. Joseph Smith is, not Russell M. Nelson.

[Philo Sofee]

Another huge foundation for Midnight Mormons argument is that the church is completely different than the one we all were a part of 10 years ago. That they have never experienced the church causing them to feel guilt, shame, all the problematic doctrines.

It's basically gaslighting.

They even claimed it's a regular part of fast and testimony meetings now for people to get up and claim they don't know the church is true.

I am seriously tempted to go to the next F&T meeting and see that for myself...
The very first impression I had on seeing them in bullet proof vests was that the Mormons didn't come wearing their garments of protection, and RFM must have...

[Philo Sofee]

These kids are too young to know how the church handled things when we were their age, it's a generation gap knowledge we are seeing in this debate. RFM did systematically keep at presenting evidence the church hides its history and gave us a warmed up version. He appeared to me to be more factual and consistent. When Cardon said the church has always been open and used the J.S. Papers as his evidence, the audience very rightly laughed out loud... That was the biggest blunder in the debate. And of course, the Mormon brainwashed fall back position now. They never confronted any evidence RFM presented I also noticed. The facts seems more favorable to RFM. That it was at the end he also brought up evidence of Joseph Fielding Smith stupidly hiding the First Vision 1832 account decimated their entire stance, yet once again...
And, it didn't get as heated or argumentative as I expected, though RFM actually got a little hot when they began falsely accusing him and telling lies about him. But overall, it was a good debate. I think RFM went easy on them... and yet, he firmly put them in their place.