RFM v. Midnight Mormons—Debate

[drumdude]

Could some nice poster please identify the three gentlemen, by name, 1-3 from left to right for me please?

Kwaku El, the forgettable one, Cardon Ellis

[Jersey Girl]

Could some nice poster please identify the three gentlemen, by name, 1-3 from left to right for me please?

Kwaku El, the forgettable one, Cardon Ellis

Thank you, nice poster.

[Analytics]

Brad Witbeck Is forgettable.

[MG 2.0]

I just finished watching the debate. I have only skimmed this thread so I don’t know what has been said in regards to the participants in specificity. I will only say that I think this discussion/debate was hugely successful. Both sides, on the whole, conducted themselves well. I was impressed with the breadth and depth of the discussion.

Well done ALL!

As I said, I have only skimmed the comments made earlier but not later in the thread so as to not be influenced either way. If there were any of you that had overly harsh things to say about ANY of the participants, I think you are being unfair. RFM handled himself and his positions with dignity and decorum as did the Midnight Mormons.

I doubt that many hearts and minds were moved from one side of the tracks to the other, but I think greater understanding and appreciation for each other as ‘brothers’ was achieved.

The moderator was awesome. When folks of different worldviews come together in a civil forum it shows that we can come together and AT LEAST respect each other as fellow travelers on this planet. The problem with online forums and online venues, unfortunately, is that we don’t interact face to face.

That’s a problem with no real solution. And it’s a big roadblock to a LOT of folks not getting along too well in our nation/world and among those that disagree on religious views on this board for example. Face to face makes a WHOLE lot of difference.

I’ve met at least three people on this board now or in the past and I am the better person for having met them and respect them for who they are because I saw them as something other than a screen name, etc.

Anyway, well done RFM and Midnight Mormons.

Regards,
MG

[SaturdaysVoyeur]

Saturdaysvoyeur
I don't think it was delusion nor conspiracy theory (though I agree they engage in both).

I think they were intentionally trying to send a very definite message that they see themselves as potential victims of an ex-Mormon mob.

Which makes the point they are delusional...

Delusional would imply that they actually believed they were in any sort of danger. It was pretty obviously just a cheap gimmick to feed their angle in the debate. The danger didn't exist, but they knew that perfectly well.

On the flipside, when investigators are taken to church, are they not ganged up by the Mormon mob in church? Doesn't the brainwashing go into over drive with all the phony friendliness in order to convince and convert?

I don't see any connection between those two things. For what it's worth, my experience has been that it depends more on the local culture and the specific ward. In places where Mormons are vastly outnumbered and/or where the local culture tends to be more diffident, I'm not sure that's as a common as it may be in Mormon Country. Wards also vary in how fake-friendly, genuinely friendly, or cliquish they are, and thus in how they treat newcomers.

Not sure at all what this has to do with the M&Ms showing up to the debate in bulletproof vests though....

[drumdude]

I just finished watching the debate. I have only skimmed this thread so I don’t know what has been said in regards to the participants in specificity. I will only say that I think this discussion/debate was hugely successful. Both sides, on the whole, conducted themselves well. I was impressed with the breadth and depth of the discussion.

Well done ALL!

As I said, I have only skimmed the comments made earlier but not later in the thread so as to not be influenced either way. If there were any of you that had overly harsh things to say about ANY of the participants, I think you are being unfair. RFM handled himself and his positions with dignity and decorum as did the Midnight Mormons.

I doubt that many hearts and minds were moved from one side of the tracks to the other, but I think greater understanding and appreciation for each other as ‘brothers’ was achieved.

The moderator was awesome. When folks of different worldviews come together in a civil forum it shows that we can come together and AT LEAST respect each other as fellow travelers on this planet. The problem with online forums and online venues, unfortunately, is that we don’t interact face to face.

That’s a problem with no real solution. And it’s a big roadblock to a LOT of folks not getting along too well in our nation/world and among those that disagree on religious views on this board for example. Face to face makes a WHOLE lot of difference.

I’ve met at least three people on this board now or in the past and I am the better person for having met them and respect them for who they are because I saw them as something other than a screen name, etc.

Anyway, well done RFM and Midnight Mormons.

Regards,
MG

The moderator’s faith journey is inspiring and I think everyone should listen to him talk about it.

I think he’s done both Mormon Stories and Radio Free Mormon interviews.

[Moksha]

Kwaku responded with his own personal experience as his mother was a polygamist and he said -- you don't know what it's like until you live it. Lame.

From what Kwaku said, it sounded unique.

[Dr. Shades]

I was reminded, many times, of the extreme and obvious divide between Internet Mormonism and Chapel Mormonism.

RFM hit the nail on the head when he explained, more than once, that Mopologists invent their own Mormonism and defend that, while not defending the actual, literal Mormonism that the Lord, through his mouthpieces, teaches. . . the kind that RFM lived through and believed in for 40 years. What better exposition of Internet Mormonism vs. Chapel Mormonism could there be?

I mean, COME ON. . . People in Fast & Testimony meeting "routinely" say "I believe this church is true?" Kwaku expects that a man and a man can be sealed together as a couple for all eternity? I don't care who you are, that ain't Mormonism!!

[Dwight]

Maybe I am biased, but RFM's LDS church is much more the reality of Nelson as its president today, and the history that it has. These mopologists have completely created a church of their own that they are defending, and able to cause it has much less problems with things like LGBT+ and other things.

I have only ever heard someone allowing themselves to be very vulnerable being able to give their testimony and say they don't know if they believe. However I have heard plenty talk about I didn't know, but always as a stepping stone to, but then I read the scriptures, the Book of Mormon, I went on my mission and in the MTC or while on my mission then, only then, did really gain a testimony and now I know. However from church leaders we have been instructed to say we know even if we don't know cause then we will then know.

[Atlanticmike]

Haha. Basically you're upset because Kwaku defended Mormonism righteously and faithfully and you were hoping the outcome was going to be different than what it was. I was wrong a couple weeks ago when I said RFM would come out of this debate looking like he was being picked on by the Midnight Mormons. Infact, just the opposite!! The audience acted like a bunch of spoiled whiny brats that wanted RFM to tear up his three younger opponents. The Midnight Mormons came out of this debate looking great!! RFM came out of this debate looking like an old man that's upset because he spent the first half of life in Mormonism and now he can't figure out a way to move on. Tell ya the truth, Mormonism was the true winner of this debate. Why the hell would I want to leave Mormonism to just become a middle aged man that looks forward to sitting in an audience that cheers for someone that tears down someones religion? What kinda life is that? The audience was the big loser. A bunch of old white men laughing at three young men defending their faith. You guys need to get a life! Learn how to move on.

Why would anyone want to stay LDS to sit in an audience listening to Quackoo tear down the constitutional right to an attorney? Why would anyone want to stay LDS to sit in an audience listening to three fools who know less about their religion than the person they are debating? Why would anyone want to stay LDS when LDS defenders have to engage in character assassination and stupid stunts (like wearing bullet-proof vests) because they are so poorly equipped to defend their faith? Why would anyone want to stay LDS upon realizing the mentality of those who think that the Midnight Morons did a great job? I took part in the chat during the livestream, and the LDS defenders therein were positively embarrassing to themselves and the LDS Church.

I can see wanting to stay LDS for various reasons, but none of them have anything to do with the debate. I can see wanting to leave the LDS Church, and none of them really have much to do with the debate. I thought RFM did fine, but I doubt his appearance will persuade anyone of anything, and I think he had a couple of off moments. The Midnight Morons entered looking like morons and left looking like morons, although Cardon did somewhat better in not looking like a complete lunatic than I thought he would. I saw some real genuine humanity, in fact, from Brad and Cardon, which was somewhat of a relief, and did more to reflect well on the LDS Church than any of their lame arguments, whereas Quackoo is just really awful. An obviously shallow charm that does a poor job of hiding his lack of integrity and poor character.

The debate would've been the same no matter what religion we're talking about, that's the point. You had a middle aged lawyer trying to explain the facts of Mormonism and the "facts" don't matter when it comes to religion, ANY RELIGION! Are you able to give me a religion where the facts prove the religion 100% true?? Again, for all you really really smart people, are you able to tell me what religion is proved 100% true with FACTS? No! You can't! Because religion, any religion isn't about actual facts.

Here some advice from a roofer with a GED. You lawyers, doctors and other self-professed smart people, left the Mormon church and became addicted to proving the church wrong because you think somehow it's going to relieve the pain you feel inside. Can leaving a religion be a major trauma event in your life?? Absolutely!! But tearing it down and studying it for the rest of your life isn't going to dull the pain.