The Rosebud MEGATHREAD

[Canadiandude2]

Are there more accounts from women on the Rosebud controversy I can read from either side?

I read Rosebud’s account on her site.

I have read Kate Kelly’s account. (I was confused at her attack on the sexual health councillor)

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Patriarchy is very real and needs to be challenged.

Why?

- Doc

[Canadiandude2]

Patriarchy is very real and needs to be challenged.

Why?

- Doc

Because it continues to produce outcomes that disproportionately marginalizes women’s interests compared to men’s.

May I ask why challenging the patriarchy is in question?

I’m suddenly getting déjà vu and recalling that one of the very first posts I reported (and saw) on here was a graphic and inappropriate metaphor re: Hanna Seariac and Daniel Peterson.

I mean, what’s the point of challenging the church if we’re just gonna reproduce the same unethical systems?

Sure, they have terrible methodologies for examining existence claims, but that seems an incredibly low bar in my estimate.

Maybe I don’t belong in this forum either.

[drumdude]

The problem is that Rosebud is constantly trying to conflate her personal cause (vendetta) with the cause of women’s rights.

You can be a feminist and an ally and still call rosebud out on her crap.

[Canadiandude2]

If her claims are insufficiently strong compared to alternative arguments, then sure, I think I understand.

I haven’t yet decided where I stand re: Rosebud and Dehlin.
Still reading.

I do however think that one can counter an argument belonging to a specific case, without minimizing the real problems that women face compared to men, and on account of men-
That patriarchy exists- and should be challenged.

~

I do not fetishize women as being necessarily more moral or truthful. I do however believe we live in a system that where women regularly experience more harassment and barriers relative to men.

Because of this, we need to be careful how we approach the issue.

[Canadiandude2]

Logging off.

Something feels…amiss.

Mormons. Exmormons. Never-Mormons.

I don’t know that I care.

I just wanna know what ‘right looks like’.

[drumdude]

Have a good night Canadian dude! The one thing I hope all of us agree on, and this is something rosebud brought up on her website which I strongly agree with, is that the us-versus-them war is a very unhealthy mindset.

I want to see everyone, Rosebud, Dehlin, Peterson, me, and you all grow as people. The more often we admit we’re wrong instead of digging our feet in, the more we’ll grow. I have hope that most of us aren’t simply taking sides but instead trying to seek out the truth no matter what it is.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Why?

- Doc

Because it continues to produce outcomes that disproportionately marginalizes women’s interests compared to men’s.

So, you want a system that produces an outcome that is equitable based on sex?

- Doc

[Moksha]

All I have to do is see a Rosebug post and I start having trouble with my gag response.

It's like you turn off the lights and they are all over the kitchen, chomping down on the crumbs you left on the counter and leaving you notes saying how they are wild about Kwaku. Well, this has to stop, or else we will spray them with another Doc Cam meme!!!

[Canadiandude2]

Because it continues to produce outcomes that disproportionately marginalizes women’s interests compared to men’s.

So, you want a system that produces an outcome that is equitable based on sex?

- Doc

My words were chosen because while it’s all great to speak of equality of opportunity, many of the barriers that women and other marginalized groups face are systemic but not easily solved through equal opportunity policies alone.

In my own field of political science, there’s long been a debate as to whether the scarcity of women in politics is due to supply or demand. Over the last few years however the research suggests it’s more of a demand problem, with one proposed solution being quotas.

I want a system that’s more equitable yes, but not just for women. Racialized minorities (particularly people of colour in Canada and the US), Indigenous & First Nations Peoples (who also face racial barriers), my fellow 2slgbtq+, there are a lot of people whose interests are poorly served right now.

I don’t believe in any ‘end of history’ as it were, but I do think we can do better to meet the needs of disenfranchised people, and much of what the church currently stands for is either in direct or indirect opposition to this goal.