........

[Shulem]

Because the Saviour lives, we all have access to hope, joy, peace, repentance and eternal life as we heed His call to “come, follow me” (Luke 18:22).

I have come to understand that I don't need Christ to be happy. In fact, my belief in Christ held me back. It kept me from becoming who I really am.

I live a fulfilled life now.

[Shulem]

34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.

On the contrary, giving up my faith in Jesus has blessed me. I am free now to be who I am without having to subscribe to religions dogma. These are days of enlightenment.

[Shulem]

112th section of D&C:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;"

No. This is false doctrine. It is not true. Rejecting Mormonism and the Church will not bring any of these things upon humanity.

I do not fear the Mormon God. Not at all!

[msnobody]

Speaking for myself, I know that one can be truly happy and at peace by giving up the faith and belief in the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. When I look back at my days of testimony in the Church it was like being enslaved and imprisoned. The idea of drinking blood and relying on an angry Heavenly Father who required one of his sons to be tortured and brutally murdered in order for him to get over it all -- proved to me that sending one's own son to a horrible death in order to get the other children off the hook is NOT a doctrine of love. That is not what any loving father does. A loving father forgives for forgiveness sake and doesn't require beating another child to appease his anger! That is what a cruel father would do. It's a doctrine of FEAR! It's a doctrine of scaring people into submitting to cult teachings and blood lusts. That was ancient theology -- an abomination. Mankind is rising above that. The Dark Ages will soon be behind us as more and more people give up Jesus blood.

How differently would this look if Jesus is actually God incarnate and God came to earth as the person of Jesus, taking His wrath upon sin upon Himself, in our place, so we would not have to experience separation from God?

[Shulem]

How differently would this look if Jesus is actually God incarnate and God came to earth as the person of Jesus, taking His wrath upon sin upon Himself, in our place, so we would not have to experience separation from God?

It's not necessary to beat, maim, and torture a person to death in order to work up the courage to forgive someone for forgiveness sake. As a father myself, when one of my children apologized that was good enough. I didn't go and tell them I needed to take a belt to their sibling in order to forgive them. Forgiveness is all about being sorry and making changes. It's not about a spilling blood and torture. You don't have to do that to forgive. I find the biblical God to be a person who is cruel and vindictive. I totally reject the biblical God. I'm above that! I am better than he is and my ways are higher.

[Shulem]

Isaiah 55:8,9
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Wrong. I am better than that. I am a better person than the biblical God who tortures, maims, and requires pain and suffering in order to forgive. I am better and my ways are higher!

And I don't require the burning of innocent animals. To me, that is a vulgar and awful display of cruelty and is inhuman. Neither would I sanction the killing of one of my children in order to forgive the others.

I believe I am better than Bible God.

[Shulem]

Shulem and Philo, this thread is clearly titled LDS Thoughts and DOCTRINE.

I hope that Philo continues to express his thoughts about LDS doctrine and why it is so wrong. Let us abide by the board rules and try to show respect to persons in whom we are conversing. But I will make it no secret that I have absolutely zero respect for the biblical God. I feel a part of my mission in life is to try and convince others not to ascribe to that God and to forsake the biblical doctrine of blood atonement.

I can do that in *THIS* thread. I will try to abide by board rules and not insult you personally, Elizabeth. This is the Celestial Forum! But, I will insult the biblical God because I directly oppose him and am trying to get people to forsake it. I can't express opposition against him without insulting him.

I'm sure you understand. This board is all about expressing different points of view including the opposites.

[Shulem]

“The sacrament should be a powerful, reverent, reflective moment. It should encourage spiritual feelings and impressions. As such it should not be rushed. It is not something to ‘get over’ so that the real purpose of a sacrament meeting can be pursued. This is the real purpose of the meeting. And everything that is said or sung or prayed in those services should be consistent with the grandeur of this sacred ordinance.”

Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Been there done that. I've sat through countless sacrament services and all I can say is that they are all behind me, thank goodness. Having endured those boring and painful moments of not feeling good enough for being who I am and having to submit myself to an imaginary person was a burden I'm glad to have gotten rid of.

Nobody need think they have to sit in the pew and pretend to drink the blood of an imaginary person in order to make themselves a good person. It's all a big guilt trip that the Church and religion put on people in order to make them feel bad about themselves. It's all about making people feel guilty and having to submit to an invisible person who is 2,000 years late coming back and taking over the world. He is NEVER coming back.

[Shulem]

Shulem and Philo, this thread is clearly titled LDS Thoughts and DOCTRINE.

AND, we shall continue to talk about and discuss LDS Thoughts and DOCTRINE. Thank you for providing a thread that is open to so many topics! It's practically endless about what we can talk about. And, I mentioned earlier that my ways are higher than Isaiah's. I really don't think much of Isaiah. His writings are boring.

What "DOCTRINE" shall we discuss now? Hmmm. I particularly love to find fault with Church doctrine and Church leaders. That is my specialty.

[Shulem]

Elder McConkie:

"Being subject to law, and having their agency, all the spirits of men, while yet in the Eternal Presence, developed aptitudes, talents, capacities, and abilities of every sort, kind, and degree. During the long expanse of life which then was, an infinite variety of talents and abilities came into being. As the ages rolled, no two spirits remained alike. Mozart became a musician; Einstein centered his interest in mathematics; Michelangelo turned his attention to painting. Cain, was a liar, a schemer, a rebel who maintained a close affinity to Lucifer."

Hence, the curse of Cain. The black man doesn't get to hold the priesthood. That WAS Mormonism for a great long time until recently new Church leaders came along and threw the old ones under the bus.

How about we quote curse of Cain references about the poor black man losing blessings because he has the blood of Cain? That was DOCTRINE at one time.