Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

[Kishkumen]

Then you may freely consider all my claims NOT backed up. I don't care. You're not the only reader on this board and there are a variety of readers who see things in different ways and in a different light. You're a tough NUT to crack, Kish. For me, you're too much of a game and a sideshow. I don't have the energy or inclination to try and reach you. Like I said earlier (spelling) you loose/lose me in so many ways. I don't understand you very well and will leave it at that. You're worried about my freaking spelling? You know what, Kish? You're a snob. You really are.

LOL. Yeah, you're not altogether wrong there, Shulem. I guess I am kind of a snob.

But, here's the thing: I don't see how you are qualified to say that the Book of Mormon can't be ancient because it does not do what you think it should do as an ancient historical text. I don't think you know enough about that topic to speak at all authoritatively.

I know just enough about ancient historiography to know that your judgment on that is uninformed. I say this as someone who sees the Book of Mormon as a 19th century text. So, we agree about the fact that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon in the late 1820s. The most important point of agreement is there. What we do not agree on is what makes it not ancient, it seems, and what really matters in reaching that judgement.

I mean, the Book of Mormon is so obviously a 19th century text that a lot of what you are saying is superfluous. If what you are saying is methodologically unsound, then you are only undermining your own case unnecessarily.

[Moksha]

... but, damn, have the good sense to recognize that people with actual training have something to bring to the table. Take their advice with some grace instead of thrashing around like an angry teenager.

For instance, when Dr. Gee says the papyrus was about 47 feet long, why doubt him since he has a doctoral degree in Egyptology. The MAD board established some time ago that doctoral degrees Trump all other forms of reasoning.

What methodology and statistics have you run on the comparative ways to feed yourself without fire? What if these Nephites caught fish and ate sashimi together with seaweed for extra umami flavor? You need to think within the confines of a degree, Shulem!!!

[Shulem]

I know just enough about ancient historiography to know that your judgment on that is uninformed. I say this as someone who sees the Book of Mormon as a 19th century text.

The Book of Mormon CAN'T be ancient anymore than the plates sitting under that cloth were ancient. BOTH are fakes. The stories of the Book of Mormon are not ancient. They are the imaginations and rambling of Joseph Smith living out his various fantasies and applying them into novel form. It is not an ancient work. It all came from the mind of a man who plagiarized and made it all up on the fly.

Yes, it's 19th century text, 100% 19th century text other than the cut and paste jobs from 1611.

[Kishkumen]

For instance, when Dr. Gee says the papyrus was about 47 feet long, why doubt him since he has a doctoral degree in Egyptology. The MAD board established some time ago that doctoral degrees Trump all other forms of reasoning.

Good heavens, Moksha. Is this the best you can do? I mean, sure, enjoy yourself with all of the goofy crap you like, but what Gee has done with his credentials in regards to the Book of Abraham is out there for everyone to see for themselves, with the respectable opinion of Robert Ritner backing up the criticism from a position of some authority. You would put me in the same category as Gee when I say that the Book of Mormon is not ancient? When I have carried on the argument against its antiquity for years on end?

When I provide some parallel examples to look at, I'm just ignored. So, no, I don't think that I have compromised my expertise in critiquing the effectiveness of various ways of disconfirming Book of Mormon antiquity. I am no John Gee.

[Kishkumen]

The Book of Mormon CAN'T be ancient anymore than the plates sitting under that cloth were ancient. BOTH are fakes. The stories of the Book of Mormon are not ancient. They are the imaginations and rambling of Joseph Smith living out his various fantasies and applying them into novel form. It is not an ancient work. It all came from the mind of a man who plagiarized and made it all up on the fly.

Yes, it's 19th century text, 100% 19th century text other than the cut and paste jobs from 1611.

Yeah, it is from the 19th century. All of the other hyperbolic and denigrating language is unnecessary.

[Shulem]

... but, damn, have the good sense to recognize that people with actual training have something to bring to the table. Take their advice with some grace instead of thrashing around like an angry teenager.

For instance, when Dr. Gee says the papyrus was about 47 feet long, why doubt him since he has a doctoral degree in Egyptology. The MAD board established some time ago that doctoral degrees Trump all other forms of reasoning.

What methodology and statistics have you run on the comparative ways to feed yourself without fire? What if these Nephites caught fish and ate sashimi together with seaweed for extra umami flavor? You need to think within the confines of a degree, Shulem!!!

Do you doubt me?



I am Discuss Mormonism.

[Shulem]

Yeah, it is from the 19th century. All of the other hyperbolic and denigrating language is unnecessary.

Then where is the FUN?

I want to have fun. I'm a teen at heart, yeah baby!

[Moksha]

I want to have fun. I'm a teen at heart, yeah baby!

Can you dance like an Egyptian on TikTok? That could out teenage the Midnight Mormons.

[Shulem]

So does everybody agree that it was just plain dumb for the families of Lehi and Ishmael to endure several days of discomfort and wait for Nephi to come off his mountain of holiness before they can light a fire? Can everyone agree that Nephi was a power-hungry vicious tyrant that deprived women and children the benefits of a hot meal and bath because the holy man is praying in the mountain thinking himself above everyone else? can anyone not be angry with Nephi for abusing his own mother? Treating her like a vegetable who doesn't deserve a hot bath and some comforts. Nephi was a mean bastard and a cruel man. He thought himself a king!

Nephi truly was a tyrant. Little wonder Laman and Lemuel had enough of him. They arrived in Bountiful and can't get a decent bath or have a good cooked meal. No! Deprivation and sacrifice to Nephi was in order. Who cares that crabs were crawling in the children's soiled diapers and the women were dealing with certain itchy issues. Obey Nephi! For he will one day be king! All hail Nephi!

Then, and only then, will they have a fire, AFTER Nephi smites two rocks. And that my friends is how the Book of Mormon is the story of Joseph Smith's fantasy.

Yeah Joe, baby!

[Shulem]

All of the other hyperbolic and denigrating language is unnecessary.

Ur just egging me on for more, aren't ya? Cuzz I'm gonna roast Joe just for u.