Is the tricky part in maintaining chronology supposed to be just keeping time going forward, year after year, as chapter follows chapter? I mean, okay, a little kid might easily screw that up. It really isn't rocket science, though. What's so hard about having a chronology?
It was simply a matter of moving the years forward and keeping track of the reign of the kings and judges. But what makes it tricky is there were different groups and stories taking place and crisscrossing within the chapters of the novel and it could have been really easy to screw up unless care was taken to keep it organized. I can't stress enough that you read the 600 year thread and you'll see exactly how everything was managed within the structure of the timeline. And you will learn some cool stuff.
Could you imagine how awesome it’d be to have his working notes? I’d love to see, much like we have with the GAEL and papyri how the Book of Abraham came into existence, how the Book of Mormon’s narrative and different literature-elements were woven into the story. Shulem’s graphics above do a bang up job helping us see how the story crept up and down the imaginative geographic area of the Book of Mormon. Much like GRRM used the British isles and Ireland to lay out the history of Westeros, it’s clear Shulem figured out how Joseph Smith used the Late War’s narrative to superimpose his own work of fiction. The literal dimensions of the geographic area aren’t so important as is the imaginary geography overlaid onto delmarva fitting into the layout of his story. What a home run, Shulem.
Is the tricky part in maintaining chronology supposed to be just keeping time going forward, year after year, as chapter follows chapter? I mean, okay, a little kid might easily screw that up. It really isn't rocket science, though. What's so hard about having a chronology?
If you perused Shulem’s thread you can see that it would have taken a feat of genius to put the Book of Mormon together. Remember, Joseph had no crib notes. If he did it through his own genius and memory tricks it would have gone against the grain of what Emma:
I am somewhat perplexed as to how a person of your intellectual prowess cannot see the genius behind the Book of Mormon chronology and other textual/literary components of the Book of Mormon.
Again, the million dollar question is could Joseph have performed this feat on his own? Especially at this stage of his life.
As I mentioned in my initial post, critics have to either ignore or go to great lengths to circumvent the complexity of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s testimony as to how it came forth.
What are some specific examples of how the Book of Mormon plot is complex and interwoven in such a way that it would be hard to avoid the multiple timelines getting entangled? Where are these tricky parts?
There are some complex issues interwoven into the story in which the chronology is incredibly maintained. There is however a major error made near the beginning of the reign of the kings (reference Enos era). I highly recommend you consider my Celestial thread about the first 600 years in which I take a very critical look at what you are enquiring about. You'll find that even I am hard pressed to find fault with how the chronology is so well built into the story. Read this thread and YOU will know what you need to know, compliments of Shulem. No faith promoting BS to have to wade through. Just good and honest critical review and analysis in which I will take you on a ride. Do it! Then you won't have to listen to Kishkumen slam you. You'll be schooled and trained in these matters.
Let me tell you what I believe helped Joseph Smith keep his story straight. He needed a good landing in which to envision the beginning of the story in order to perfectly ground it into his mind as point A or, square one.
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Then Smith needed to divide his story by separating main parties from each other. He had the oceans as references and a river to go between them.
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It was critical that the narrow neck come into play because it separated everyone on the peninsula from everyone up in the northern lands which is where the Book of Mormon ends with Mormon and Moroni.
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Joseph Smith built his story on a land surrounded by ocean and there were a great many cities included on that land. Having his orientation using the peninsula made it fairly easy to keep track when he added each new city to his stories. I've included these cities on the map at good proximity in which Smith was keeping track.
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Writing the Book of Mormon via dictating it out of a hat was not rocket science. It was a major feat but not a miracle by any means. Smith kept track of his stories and did a great job of it. But the book has many flaws and Smith use the Bible to get him through it. Everything in the Book of Mormon that is genuine or historical is on account of the Bible and even that has problems.
This is a great overview, Shulem. It reminds me of William Davis’ concept that Smith was using an oral tradition with what he called “headings”, I think, to keep the storytelling straight. In your explanation, Smith used this mapped area as his heading, and you’ve laid out the logic exceptionally well.
It’s a great piece of storytelling, but like you said, no miracle.
No, I don't remember that, I wasn't there. And I don't necessarily believe what Emma might have said. I don't necessarily trust Emma on all points. She learned all about lying from her lying husband. They deserved each other!
I believe Smith had notes and kept a timeline to manage his stories.
Again, the million dollar question is could Joseph have performed this feat on his own? Especially at this stage of his life.
No, the million dollar question is: What's the king's name in Facsimile No. 3?
AND, why did it take so long for Nephi to finally pick out a pair of stones in which to start a fire?
Answer me that, MG. Why couldn't Nephi's mother get a hot bath and why was fire withheld for so long after reaching Bountiful? Explain that to me, please. Point for point. YOU explain! Don't send me to some silly apologetic link because I refuse to read apologetic material.
Is the tricky part in maintaining chronology supposed to be just keeping time going forward, year after year, as chapter follows chapter? I mean, okay, a little kid might easily screw that up. It really isn't rocket science, though. What's so hard about having a chronology?
If you perused Shulem’s thread you can see that it would have taken a feat of genius to put the Book of Mormon together. Remember, Joseph had no crib notes. If he did it through his own genius and memory tricks it would have gone against the grain of what Emma:
I am somewhat perplexed as to how a person of your intellectual prowess cannot see the genius behind the Book of Mormon chronology and other textual/literary components of the Book of Mormon.
Again, the million dollar question is could Joseph have performed this feat on his own? Especially at this stage of his life.
As I mentioned in my initial post, critics have to either ignore or go to great lengths to circumvent the complexity of the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith’s testimony as to how it came forth.
Angels, etc.
Regards,
MG
It is pure fiction and so that is where one needs to start. Go back and look at all the supposed evidence you have and put it into a fiction paradigm. It will resolve all of these "how could he have done it" claims you continually want to make. There never were Nephites or Lamanites in the real world and so the possibility of angels and Joseph Smith's testimony go by the wayside pretty quickly. Even so, Shulem has come up with some pretty good possibilities as to how Joseph Smith might have composed his Bible fiction.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
It’s a great piece of storytelling, but like you said, no miracle.
Thanks! And what's amazing is the apologists and the Church for that matter, still can't find the narrow neck. Oh, that narrow neck! It destroys the Book of Mormon. Apologists read the text how they want it to read and can't do simple math and geometry which Smith was doing when he explained the narrow neck dimensions to me. And with that, Nephi's Mesoamerica is doomed. I have completely destroyed it using Smith's key words in revealing the peninsula in which he built his story.
The question is: Which lucky podcaster is going to broadcast that first!
Square one is arriving in Bountiful and NOT having a fire until Nephi gets his pompous ass down from the mount to give his father and brethren a new commandment which is they must build a ship and Nephi will show everyone how to do it. But first, they need to collect the ore and build a bellows. THEN, after that, lord Nephi will strike two lucky stones together to cause a spark and make a fire. At last, mom can have a bath and Nephi's wife can wash her privates properly.
What's wrong with this story, MG? Explain it to me in your own words.
