Kinderhook Plates and Don Bradley

[Shulem]

There is no evidence that the Prophet Joseph Smith ever took up the matter with the Lord, as he did when working with the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham.

However, there is no evidence that Joseph Smith believed he had experienced a revealed translation or that he led others to believe he had.

Contrary to the above, it’s entirely reasonable that Charlotte Haven, Mr. Moore, William Clayton, Brigham Young, and others believed that the prophet Joseph Smith could certainly translate the Kinderhook plates by the help of revelation. It’s also reasonable that Smith utilized his divine right to receive direct revelation (yet again) in order to identify what the plates represented just as he did the papyrus rolls of Abraham & Joseph. The very idea that the prophet Joseph Smith neglected to call upon God and receive revelation to justify the validity of the Kinderhook plates and determine their origin is contrary to Mormon doctrine. *THAT* assumption also denies Joseph Smith’s divine mission to guide the Church like a modern-day Moses.

If thou shalt ask, thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.

But ye are commanded in all things to ask of God, who giveth liberally; and that which the Spirit testifies unto you even so I would that ye should do in all holiness of heart, walking uprightly before me, considering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving, that ye may not be seduced by evil spirits, or doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men; for some are of men, and others of devils.

And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Don, the Backyard Professor highlights the following observation about me:

Scholarship of Paul Osborne

[Shulem]

What is it?

An 18th century conman by the name of Fugate etched a full circle into the metal plate in order to represent what he thought an ancient man might etch into a preciously crafted metal plate that tells readers who possess it something of significance. What is the circle that Fugate intended that an ancient man would represent? What thing in ancient times is represented by a full circle having no supporting décor or expression? Just a lone circle for the circle’s sake! It really can’t be anything other than a full moon (or sun) moving across the sky above in timeless like fashion. IF you don’t agree with me on this issue then perhaps you have a better idea? What might that be?

[Shulem]

It’s likely that Fugate did see a copy of the Book of Abraham published in the Times and Seasons. It was an anticipated event for the grand city of Nauvoo and the people of the southern community of Kinderhook would have heard about it through the missionaries.

Fugate, like Joseph Smith, would have recognized the full circles in the Facsimile No. 2 as consisting of heavenly objects of the sky -- the sun, moon, and stars, set within the astral heavens above. It’s really a no brainer! What else could it possibly be?

with a crown of eternal light upon his head;

the stars represented by numbers 22 and 23

[Themis]

The very idea that the prophet Joseph Smith neglected to call upon God and receive revelation to justify the validity of the Kinderhook plates and determine their origin is contrary to Mormon doctrine.

It's contrary to reason and logic. If Joseph could and did translate the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham by the power of God, why avoid asking God about the kinderhook plates? If he thinks it's legitimate he would ask God. If he thinks it could be fraud he would ask God. He has a long history of claiming to ask God and getting answers to questions about far less serious issues.

[Moksha]

It’s really a no brainer! What else could it possibly be?

Kishkumen might suggest you strap the Kinderhook Plates to an apparatus and perform a full literary analysis before leaping to any conclusions.

Personally, I would settle for a mocha made with espresso and Hah-ko-kau-beans.

[Shulem]

The very idea that the prophet Joseph Smith neglected to call upon God and receive revelation to justify the validity of the Kinderhook plates and determine their origin is contrary to Mormon doctrine.

It's contrary to reason and logic. If Joseph could and did translate the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham by the power of God, why avoid asking God about the kinderhook plates? If he thinks it's legitimate he would ask God. If he thinks it could be fraud he would ask God. He has a long history of claiming to ask God and getting answers to questions about far less serious issues.

Smith had two choices in which to make his determination.

1. The plates were genuine artifacts that had long been buried deep in the earth’s crust.
2. The plates were forgeries planted secretly for the sole purpose of fooling the Mormon prophet.

Smith considered his options and there were only two. It’s either this or that.

This = Fake
That = Genuine

Smith considered the plates were genuine because information to the contrary is not even taken into consideration. There wasn’t any question about whether the plates were genuine. The question Smith was concerned about was whether there was anyone else in the world that could actually decipher the writing because Smith was not going to attempt a translation and then be challenged by experts and proven wrong.

That is the whole point of the Kinderhook plates story. Once Smith was satisfied nobody knew the language, he tendered a description of their origins and what they represented. Smith knew he was making that up and he knew he was a liar. But he believed the plates were real just as all the other Mormons did. Discernment through Holy Ghost powers was completely absent. Both parties were liars.

1. Fugate was a liar.
2. Smith was a liar.

Liars all around!!

[Shulem]

We can conclude the following:

• All Mormons believed the plates were genuine.

• All Mormons were wrong.

• All Mormons lacked discernment from the Holy Ghost® to know the truth.

Interestingly enough we can also conclude that although Fugate was a liar, he knew the truth which is more than we can say for Joseph Smith and the Mormons who were duped.

[Shulem]

So which of the two liars was worse, Fugate or Smith ?

Lying is lying but Smith’s was far worse because he lied in order to dupe his followers and maintain power over them to help keep money flowing into the Nauvoo coffers. But Fugate was only trying to catch a man in a lie so he employed deceit in order to catch what he honestly believed was the lying ring-leader of Mormonism.

In conclusion, Joseph Smith was worse than Fugate, much, much worse! At least Fugate had honest intentions under his plan of deceit. Joseph Smith was never honest about anything. He was rotten to the core and that can be vehemently argued.

[Shulem]

Or in other words, Fugate could be construed as a kind of hero because he challenged what he believed was a false prophet and that challenge served to beat Smith at his own game. It was an act of bravery on his part. Enemies of the prophet were not safe from potential retaliation from Smith’s henchmen.

[Shulem]

I’ve touched briefly on the fact that Joseph Smith failed to discern the plates were fake and failed to perceive he was being lied to. This is very important and vital in helping us understand the true nature of Smith’s professed ability to be connected with a divine Spirit of discernment. You see, it all comes down to discernment -- truth vs. error. We can expect nothing less from a prophet or from a Christ than that person is able to spiritually discern -- a gift of the Spirit in which a prophet or Christ surely should have. Can any honest thinking Latter-day Saint imagine Jesus of Nazareth being fooled in the same manner as Joseph was? What if fake plates were brought to Jesus for him to translate or interpret? Would Jesus have been Kinderhooked ® and believed the lie? Of course not, because he’s Christ! Well, we should expect the same kind of spirit of discernment from Christ’s prophet, anything less than that is spiritually inferior or a false spirit. This reminds me of President Kimball and his brethren who were fooled by Hofmann selling the Church fake documents and President Kimball bought it -- hook, line, and sinker. No discernment from the Spirit. It’s a prime example of God’s so-called prophet acting as a foolish man and misleading the Church while all along pretending to possess the keys of the kingdom of God. This is a red flag and should serve as a warning sign for those who invest their time, talents, and everything in which they have to the Church!

So, there is the question about whether Smith tried to really translate through the Spirit and if the translation recorded in official Church diaries are really what he tendered. But guess what? I really don’t care because that all becomes rather moot when you compare it with the larger issue which is: Does the prophet have discernment through a divine Spirit? Can he perceive truth vs. error when it’s right in front of his face? That is the real test and mark of a true prophet, I’d say! The business of the alleged translation can be chalked up as inconclusive by which one brother said this and another said that and it just got written down and maybe Joseph Smith never said anything about it. But the truth of the matter is that Joseph Smith was fooled and believed a lie when he should have perceived and understood the truth. Does not the truth set us free? Joseph was NOT free but was trapped within the lies of his own misunderstanding as were those who believed him.