Faithful TBM to doubter in 6 hours on ex-Mormon Reddit

[KevinSim]

Are you sitting still, KevinSim? You seem to be, but you are on a rotating sphere, with a velocity of a substantial fraction of 1600 km/h due to the rotation. Add 108,000 km/h due to earth's orbit around the sun, etc.

Even if you recognize these motions, their apparent smoothness at the level of human observation hides a huge amount of "turbulence" that can be detected by instruments.

All of this is to say that what you infer about an entity with free will may be completely wrong because you are inferring from the wrong level.

I guess that's possible, Malkie, but when trying to figure out stuff like this one has to start somewhere, and I can't think of a better place to start than the reasoning I've done regarding free will. Can you?

[KevinSim]

If we’re going to have a good faith discussion ref LDS truth claims, we’re going to have to have consistent statements with agreed upon terminology. Are you ready to examine and deconstruct LDS truth claims in this manner?

Doc, it's obvious that examining and deconstructing LDS truth claims is very important to you. When I talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being true, I mean that God is using that church to teach me the truth about Himself. Would examining and deconstructing LDS truth claims show whether or not God is using the LDS Church to teach me the truth about Himself?

[Chap]

[...] when trying to figure out stuff like this one has to start somewhere, and I can't think of a better place to start than the reasoning I've done regarding free will.[...]

I think you make an unjustified assumption when you assume that the huge complexity of the cosmos and human existence can best be understood by first looking for some kind of guaranteed fixed point and then trying to deduce everything from there. Our normal experience of living in this world is more like a constantly adjusted series of interlocking approximations that require continual updating and some kind of conflict resolution to deal with the internal contradictions that keep revealing themselves as our experience progresses.

[KevinSim]

wow, what an unnecessary escalation.

Marcus, why do you think it was unnecessary?

have you met mentalgymnast, by any chance?!!

Never have. Do I strike you as similar to her/him?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

If we’re going to have a good faith discussion ref LDS truth claims, we’re going to have to have consistent statements with agreed upon terminology. Are you ready to examine and deconstruct LDS truth claims in this manner?

Doc, it's obvious that examining and deconstructing LDS truth claims is very important to you. When I talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being true, I mean that God is using that church to teach me the truth about Himself. Would examining and deconstructing LDS truth claims show whether or not God is using the LDS Church to teach me the truth about Himself?

You’re answering questions with questions in order to avoid answering questions. That’s not good-faith behavior. It’s evasive and dishonest. If you don’t want to examine and deconstruct LDS truth claims in the manner requested you should simply decline the invitation rather than playing games.

- Doc

[Moksha]

When I talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being true, I mean that God is using that church to teach me the truth about Himself.

Sort of like saying, "Ha ha, I'm a prankster God! Look on my so-called translations and have a belly laugh". Have to admit it is rather clever once you catch on. It is reminiscent of Andy Kaufman's skits about wrestling women.

[KevinSim]

I do have to thank Kevin for not being as annoying about his faith as MG.

Gadianton, you're welcome! And thanks for the compliment.

The biggest weakness I see is that the pursuit of the truth all happens strictly with the Church's dictated model, a model that very few people outside of the Church would accept, and so never deviating from that framework shows that 99% of pursuit has been assumed away at the outset of the journey.

And yet that model makes a heck of a lot of intuitive sense. After all, if one cannot ask God a question about God and count on God responding, then how can that one ever find anything out about God?

God has a name, and it's Yahweh.

So says the Bible. The Qu'ran says God's name is Allah. Do the Vedas say God's name is Vishnu? I don't know, but hundreds of millions of Hindus who believe the Vedas have concluded that God's name is Vishnu. So, Gadianton, how did you come to the conclusion that God's name is Yahweh?
God knows that people who are just getting started in their faith don't know what His actual name is. To say that God cares that those people get His name right is to make him out as a vindictive monster.

[Rivendale]

When I talk about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being true, I mean that God is using that church to teach me the truth about Himself.

Sort of like saying, "Ha ha, I'm a prankster God! Look on my so-called translations and have a belly laugh". Have to admit it is rather clever once you catch on. It is reminiscent of Andy Kaufman's skits about wrestling women.

Jesus also had followers believe he wasn't dead. Just like Andy.

some friends and family were convinced that the whole thing was a hoax, and these rumors have only grown more rampant since then. Bob Zmuda has often claimed that Kaufman told him aloud that he wanted to one day fake his death for a few decades, as the best practical joke of all time, presumably to return sometime in the 21st century.

[KevinSim]

You’re answering questions with questions in order to avoid answering questions. That’s not good-faith behavior. It’s evasive and dishonest.

Doc, why do you think it's dishonest? Is it more dishonest than the implication that I need to answer those questions to have a good faith discussion? You want an answer to your question? Fine. I'm not ready to examine and deconstruct LDS truth claims. I honestly don't see the point in such an analysis, and until someone shows me what the point is, I don't intend to head in that direction.

[Rivendale]

You’re answering questions with questions in order to avoid answering questions. That’s not good-faith behavior. It’s evasive and dishonest.

Doc, why do you think it's dishonest? Is it more dishonest than the implication that I need to answer those questions to have a good faith discussion? You want an answer to your question? Fine. I'm not ready to examine and deconstruct LDS truth claims. I honestly don't see the point in such an analysis, and until someone shows me what the point is, I don't intend to head in that direction.

There are three questions a deconstructionist of any belief system has to ask. Would I want to know if it is true? How would I know? And what would I do?