How long/intensely did you believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Does God demand worship? Yes or no.

- Doc

I’ve given my answer.

Regards,
MG

And this is why you’re a troll. Even when shown you’re literally posting false doctrine, whether it’s done maliciously or ignorantly, we can’t actually get you to just admit it.

Mopologists. 25 years of this bad faith interactions with the world

- Doc

[Dr Exiled]

Obviously they were focusing on what they were missing. Is that what is going on with you?

Umm…what am I missing?

Regards,
MG

You tell me. You are the one who told Doc to do what he likes as if there was something wrong with whatever you had in mind that he wanted to do.

[Dr Exiled]

It would work out just the same because everyone would have the same conditions, relatively speaking.

Yeah, that political philosophy has always worked out well. Everyone has to or feels compelled to toe the party line of dear leader. I really can’t see God using a failed system to bring His children along a path of eternal progress. You seem to be promoting the plan proposed by Satan.

However, in my example everyone would know the answer to "is there a god" question…

Again, this sounds like Satan’s plan. Follow dear leader and ALL will be saved. And I…god of this world…will receive the glory.

…and wouldn't have to waste time on it…

What if this is part of the reason we’re here? To search out and find God.

…and wouldn't have to trust charlatans or the delusional about religion.

That’s what goes along with agency and REAL choice.

They would be free from all the frauds out there and could then focus on other pursuits.

Born with a silver spoon in hand. No work and struggle to find meaning through focused effort.

And there could still be a test…

Not much of a test when the important answers are all given in advance. Not only that, but knowing who the test taker is and that they have a definite bias as to what you ought to do…even though you would REALLY like/want to choose differently. What kind of a test is that?

God is the test giver and says, “Don’t smoke dope”. You really want to smoke dope. Where’s that going to end up? God is the test giver and says, “No extramarital sex”. You are tempted and fail to keep His DIRECT commands. Where’s that going to leave you?

On the other hand, if you’re making choices on your own with guidance from a third party it seems as though you then have a greater degree of latitude in your decisions. You have to DECIDE whether or not a directive comes from God. And it may or may not. YOU have to decide.

When accountability is factored into THAT formula I think there is less opportunity for ‘condemnation’ or ‘judgement’ from God.

But he/she that does know God’s will and fails to follow it is under greater pressure to obey. There may be folks that actually find a way to circumnavigate around the will of God by throwing ALL gods out the window.

Better to be safe than sorry, so to speak.

So your position puts EVERYONE in a position of high risk for REAL failure if they don’t obey the direct commands of God. After all, He’s RIGHT THERE watching you. And you KNOW it. Would you really want to live under those conditions?

Soft Totalitarianism.

…and you could still shine, like you probably desire. It'd be a similar test like the pre-existence was except with the added body/natural man there with god giving his commandments in a clear fashion and seeing who would worship him.

Doomed to failure. We’re not all a bunch of robots/automatons. We are diverse. We want to make our OWN choices.

You think God is all about who will worship Him? C’mon. Look around.

God is all about free will and choice. You seemingly want to strip this ‘prime directive’ away from Him…and from us.

This brings up another questionable point to your religion. Why on earth does your god require worship in the first place?

Worship is recognition and obedience. But as you can readily see, He doesn’t demand it. If so, you’re a failure.

Do you demand that of your children? I don't.

I’m hoping they will follow and obey. But no, I can’t/won’t force them. Neither does Heavenly Father.

Demanding worship invites rebellion and probably your god knows that since he is so perfect and all.

You appear to be describing Satan’s plan again.

It is an incredibly unfair "test" to base everything on trusting bozos who make things up about god and arbitrarily make requirements about supposedly following him when he isn't anywhere to be found. Nelson clearly makes up stuff about paying tithing and how it's supposedly going to make the Africans better off. He claims god commanded him to change the sunday schedules? Or how he makes up the nonsense about the word "Mormon" etc. We're supposed to trust this guy? No thanks.

There is always going to be risk involved when God turns things over to humans. He can guide and correct, but not coerce, those that lead and guide his church.

You might do well in a Church of the Silver Platter god.

Thanks for a civil conversation even though we disagree.

Regards,
MG

It's not the devil's plan. It just cuts out the confused prophet that doesn't know when he is talking to god or his own inner voice. The "Mormon" thing with Nelson was clearly something he had in mind since the 90's and pawning off schedule changes as somehow being inspired is a stretch. However, let's get real. The ideas religions put forward about god are just guesses and your answer that the absent god as being part of the plan is mere justification for why god doesn't manifest him/herself to the world.

What you are pushing here is like if I came and showed you a sealed box and told you that the secrets and mysteries of god were contained inside but that you cannot look on it due to the necessity of having faith. Additionally, I let you know that I have seen it and that god wants me to be his mouthpiece or prophet. Nelson is fallen and I am called to right the wrongs. You scoff and I then give you a faith lesson because if you looked inside the box, obviously, you would be coerced into following. So, I then command you to pray about it and then come back to me the next day. When you come back I probe you and find out that you had a good feeling right after eating dinner the night before. I exclaim that this was your answer and that you must now follow me and my real restoration.

Should you follow me? You had the good feeling, right? If not, then why should we listen to you and follow cojcolds again? Aren't they asking the same thing as my example above? No one can see the hidden plates or the hidden god. Yet we are required to trust that Nelson and his fellow apostles have this special witness (although they are pretty wishy washy about what they have actually seen and/or refuse to let the world know, copping out by claiming it is too sacred to tell).

[MG 2.0]

Umm…what am I missing?

Regards,
MG

You tell me. You are the one who told Doc to do what he likes as if there was something wrong with whatever you had in mind that he wanted to do.

Not go to church?

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Not go to church?

Regards,
MG

[canpakes]

What if this is part of the reason we’re here? To search out and find God.

There’s something a bit odd about the notion that we’ve been created and placed on the planet so that we can engage in a lifelong game of hide’n’seek, for the sole benefit of the one doing the hiding.

[Dr Moore]

There’s something a bit odd about the notion that we’ve been created and placed on the planet so that we can engage in a lifelong game of hide’n’seek, for the sole benefit of the one doing the hiding.

My favorite Trevor Noah bit. I am in stitches every time when he gets to “which god?”

https://youtu.be/QhMO5SSmiaA

[malkie]

What if this is part of the reason we’re here? To search out and find God.

There’s something a bit odd about the notion that we’ve been created and placed on the planet so that we can engage in a lifelong game of hide’n’seek, for the sole benefit of the one doing the hiding.

And we are expected to worship him, and try to become like him, and give him lots of money while we are (mostly, at least) seeking but never finding.

[MG 2.0]

What if this is part of the reason we’re here? To search out and find God.

There’s something a bit odd about the notion that we’ve been created and placed on the planet so that we can engage in a lifelong game of hide’n’seek, for the sole benefit of the one doing the hiding.

Why do you think that the fact that essentially God IS NOT the silver platter god I’ve been referring to is a purely a selfish move on His part? Can you think of some valid reasons God might have for not revealing Himself directly and fully to every living being on the planet no matter what?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

There’s something a bit odd about the notion that we’ve been created and placed on the planet so that we can engage in a lifelong game of hide’n’seek, for the sole benefit of the one doing the hiding.

And we are expected to worship him, and try to become like him, and give him lots of money while we are (mostly, at least) seeking but never finding.

My experience, malkie, and I don’t think I’m alone, is that seeking and finding God is a process…not an event. We may even have spiritual confirmations along the way but we are still subject to doubt and discouragement in our faith and testimony. It is then that continued desire to find God leads us towards, rather than away, from Him.

Personally, I believe that He rewards those efforts of continued seeking and sacrifice to know Him and at least partially understand His oftentimes inscrutable ways.

Regards,
MG