Abortion Split from: "What the [LDS] church misrepresented in the AP article response"

[dastardly stem]

I think I’ve already made it clear but I’ll repeat. I trust God. I trust the plan that I believe he enacted for his children. That plan requires agency and the role of nature in the world. In the natural world spontaneous abortions/stillbirths will occur. There are failsafes to take care of inequalities and inequities that naturally occur.

To accuse God, however, of an evil that runs against his nature is a dead end.

On the other hand God enacted the powers of procreation and shared these powers with mankind and also commanded the animal kingdom and other forms of life to reproduce.

If people choose to purposefully disregard God’s commands given to Adam and Eve they are in opposition to God’s command to multiply and replenish the earth.

Granted, 50 percent of all fertilized eggs are lost before a woman's missed menses.

This is nature’s way of providing for a majority viable births with fewer problems.

But for women/men to take that option/decision and choose to electively abort potential healthy babies that are the end result of a pregnancy is a great evil. Millions of potential human beings have been destroyed by the agency of those who make this choice rather than the more difficult choice of bringing a child into the world.

There will be a difference of opinion between religionists and those that either live a hedonistic lifestyle and/or believe there is no accountability to a God when aborting a fetus through their own choices made out of convenience.

It’s one thing for nature to take its course, it’s another for man/womankind to play God.

All of the rationalization in the world doesn’t change that.

Regards,
MG

I can't help but notice you refused to answer my question. Yes, I can see you think it's bad for people to choose abortion. Let's try this....Is it possible God has prevented an abortion at some point in the past? Is it possible that any individual woman seeking God's guidance has been inspired by God to go ahead and seek an abortion?

[Doctor Steuss]

One thing to keep in mind also is the health and mental well being of women who abort and then regret having done so.

Inversely, one should keep in mind the health and mental wellbeing of women who are forced/coerced to give birth.

Women denied an abortion have higher rates of regret, anger, and less sense of relief, or happiness than women who gain an abortion.

Now, one might look at the timeline of that study, and think it's only short-term, but even looking out 5 years, we see that 99% of women who get an abortion do not regret the decision. Compare that with studies about people regretting becoming parents (and not even in instances where an abortion was denied), and the prevalence of abuse, mental disorders, etc., and... well... one would be hard-pressed to find a more drastic contrast.

Then, there's the rather depressing and cold reality of where the unwanted children from forced births go. There are about 400,000 children in foster care at any given moment in the US. A system that is already strained beyond capability. There are about 600,000 abortions. If abortions were outlawed tomorrow (and they didn't go underground like they have historically), I'm sure you can see that even with only a small number of those resulting births entering the foster system, it would grow exponentially over just a few years.

Incidentally, since you decided to bring politics into it. Abortion rates have fallen more under the last two Democrat administrations than under the last three Republican administrations. In fact, under the last President, abortion rates increased for the first time since the 70's.

If concern for health and mental wellbeing is truly at heart, the choice is pretty clear.

[Dr Exiled]

I'd agree Sock Puppet gave us great information which I think pretty much renders your position moot, for the most part. And yet another thread goes away in which MG refuses to answer questions or really respond to an argument people have made. But if you will consider once more:

Do you agree that on this topic we might not really know what God wants? It sounds to me you are certain about your position on abortion but aren't sure what God is thinking...correct?

I think I’ve already made it clear but I’ll repeat. I trust God. I trust the plan that I believe he enacted for his children. That plan requires agency and the role of nature in the world. In the natural world spontaneous abortions/stillbirths will occur. There are failsafes to take care of inequalities and inequities that naturally occur.

To accuse God, however, of an evil that runs against his nature is a dead end.

On the other hand God enacted the powers of procreation and shared these powers with mankind and also commanded the animal kingdom and other forms of life to reproduce.

If people choose to purposefully disregard God’s commands given to Adam and Eve they are in opposition to God’s command to multiply and replenish the earth.

Granted, 50 percent of all fertilized eggs are lost before a woman's missed menses.

This is nature’s way of providing for a majority viable births with fewer problems.

But for women/men to take that option/decision and choose to electively abort potential healthy babies that are the end result of a pregnancy is a great evil. Millions of potential human beings have been destroyed by the agency of those who make this choice rather than the more difficult choice of bringing a child into the world.

There will be a difference of opinion between religionists and those that either live a hedonistic lifestyle and/or believe there is no accountability to a God when aborting a fetus through their own choices made out of convenience.

It’s one thing for nature to take its course, it’s another for man/womankind to play God.

All of the rationalization in the world doesn’t change that.

Regards,
MG

You're just guessing and so are your leaders. The above is merely based on leaders guessing what their made up god supposedly said through the feeling method of communication, a method rife with error. Also, it has at its base the catholic idea of increased strength through reproduction. Mormon leaders saw how the catholics treated the issue and why and wanted to follow suit. Generations of 8 child families add up to a lot of Mormons.

Has this exercise been worth the derail? Incidentally, the Church is still wrong in how it has dealt with child abuse among its ranks over the years. Hopefully, they will finally come down off the mountain, not worry so much about their reputation, and find real solutions.

[MG 2.0]

Is it possible God has prevented an abortion at some point in the past? Is it possible that any individual woman seeking God's guidance has been inspired by God to go ahead and seek an abortion?

You are dealing in the abstract. I am looking at what can actually be measured and verified in real time. The arguments I’m making do not rely on possibilities and/or making stuff up.

Women/men choose to abort fetuses. That is a truth.

I recognize, however, that you see god as make believe and so all of my arguments have no merit from the get go.

You are dealing in moral relativity, I am dealing in absolutes and commandments from God. We will see things differently. Those that excuse the killing of millions of potential human beings are hard pressed not to find moral arguments that cover for the widespread annihilation of embryonic boys and girls.

Regards,
MG

[dastardly stem]

You are dealing in the abstract. I am looking at what can actually be measured and verified in real time. The arguments I’m making do not rely on possibilities and/or making stuff up.

Women/men choose to abort fetuses. That is a truth.

I recognize, however, that you see god as make believe and so all of my arguments have no merit from the get go.

You are dealing in moral relativity, I am dealing in absolutes and commandments from God. We will see things differently. Those that excuse the killing of millions of potential human beings are hard pressed not to find moral arguments that cover for the widespread annihilation of embryonic boys and girls.

Regards,
MG

Abstract? So now you think God is just an abstract idea? Awesome.

Ah well...I believe I've asked you over 10,000 questions in the years of our interactions and you've answered, perhaps, .7% of them. That's something. I guess I shouldn't expect an answer to any questions on abortion from you. Chances are they won't be forthcoming.

[MG 2.0]

If concern for health and mental wellbeing is truly at heart, the choice is pretty clear.

Health and mental well being of the woman/man choosing abortion or the health and well being of the potential human life growing within the womb?

The argument is between WHO deserves priority. The one who chose to get pregnant and doesn’t want the responsibility of carrying a child to term or the developing boy or girl in the womb that has no voice/choice.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

If concern for health and mental wellbeing is truly at heart, the choice is pretty clear.

Health and mental well being of the woman/man choosing abortion or the health and well being of the potential human life growing within the womb?

The argument is between WHO deserves priority. The one who chose to get pregnant and doesn’t want the responsibility of carrying a child to term or the developing boy or girl in the womb that has no voice/choice.

Regards,
MG

Pro-choice-MG flippity flopping all over the place.

-_-

- Doc

[MG 2.0]

Has this exercise been worth the derail?

I think the stark difference in emphasis between the objects of virtue signaling needs to be pointed out.

Health and welfare of children in one instance, but not in another.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Health and mental well being of the woman/man choosing abortion or the health and well being of the potential human life growing within the womb?

The argument is between WHO deserves priority. The one who chose to get pregnant and doesn’t want the responsibility of carrying a child to term or the developing boy or girl in the womb that has no voice/choice.

Regards,
MG

Pro-choice-MG flippity flopping all over the place.

-_-

- Doc

What are your thoughts in regards to the millions of potential human lives that have been snuffed out through elective abortions?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

You are dealing in the abstract. I am looking at what can actually be measured and verified in real time. The arguments I’m making do not rely on possibilities and/or making stuff up.

Women/men choose to abort fetuses. That is a truth.

I recognize, however, that you see god as make believe and so all of my arguments have no merit from the get go.

You are dealing in moral relativity, I am dealing in absolutes and commandments from God. We will see things differently. Those that excuse the killing of millions of potential human beings are hard pressed not to find moral arguments that cover for the widespread annihilation of embryonic boys and girls.

Regards,
MG

Abstract? So now you think God is just an abstract idea? Awesome.

Ah well...I believe I've asked you over 10,000 questions in the years of our interactions and you've answered, perhaps, .7% of them. That's something. I guess I shouldn't expect an answer to any questions on abortion from you. Chances are they won't be forthcoming.

You have purposefully been avoiding the real issue(s) throughout this conversation. You know it. I know it.

Let’s stop playing semantical games.

You are supportive of elective abortions. The annihilation of potential life while in the womb for the convenience of the mother/father.

The ultimate example of selfishness.

Regards,
MG