DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

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dastardly stem
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by dastardly stem »

DCP (quoted from above):
Every single time you've made this assertion in the past -- every single time! -- I've challenged your use of the term "proof," I've denied any such "burden," and I've asked you to explain, in your cosmos of atoms and the void, where such a "burden" is to be derived.
So he denies there is any burden for his side to accept? That would be the point of making an argument, I figure. To me all he's doing here is demonstrating he has no desire to be rational.
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Kishkumen
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by Kishkumen »

DCP loves to play these pedantic word games with gemli. Gemli rightly tries to explain over and over to DCP the concept of burden of proof, and DCP plays a philosophical word game saying proof can’t exist for anything ever.

DCP is completely ignoring the common sense argument that gemli is making. That those who make extraordinary claims should provide extraordinary evidence.
Regular evidence would do, and it, too, is lacking.
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
Philo Sofee
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by Philo Sofee »

dastardly stem wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:16 pm
DCP (quoted from above):
Every single time you've made this assertion in the past -- every single time! -- I've challenged your use of the term "proof," I've denied any such "burden," and I've asked you to explain, in your cosmos of atoms and the void, where such a "burden" is to be derived.
So he denies there is any burden for his side to accept? That would be the point of making an argument, I figure. To me all he's doing here is demonstrating he has no desire to be rational.
Yes, the church beat that out of him decades ago, and I see he is getting tired.
hauslern
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by hauslern »

I checked the BYU Archaeology faculty page and with the exception of John Clark not much supporting the Book of Mormon in their CVs:

https://anthropology.BYU.edu/directory/john-e-clark

https://anthropology.BYU.edu/faculty
Philo Sofee
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by Philo Sofee »

hauslern wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:45 pm
I checked the BYU Archaeology faculty page and with the exception of John Clark not much supporting the Book of Mormon in their CVs

https://anthropology.BYU.edu/directory/john-e-clark

https://anthropology.BYU.edu/faculty
You give them too much credit. There is nothing archaeologically discovered that supports the Book of Mormon directly as the remains of acknowledged and authentic Nephite or Lamanite civilizations.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Steve posted another gem in the comments section:
"Joseph Smith was an evil genius who perfected the text of the Book of Mormon through a masterful, intricate exercise of intellectual willpower and religious imagination and also a money-digging huckster rube who was just coming up with this embarrassing nonsense on the fly as he tricked superstitious idiots like Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery who were also cunning, devious co-conspirators."

– Every anti-Mormon since 1829.
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- Doc
Hiring a part-time news entertainment anchor as SecDef, what could go wrong?
drumdude
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by drumdude »

Kishkumen wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:54 pm
DCP loves to play these pedantic word games with gemli. Gemli rightly tries to explain over and over to DCP the concept of burden of proof, and DCP plays a philosophical word game saying proof can’t exist for anything ever.

DCP is completely ignoring the common sense argument that gemli is making. That those who make extraordinary claims should provide extraordinary evidence.
Regular evidence would do, and it, too, is lacking.
The evidence DCP offers gemli on a regular basis:

1) Joseph Smith couldn't have known how to insert early modern English (distinct from KJV English) into the Book of Mormon.
2) The Book of Mormon is too complex to have been dictated in the amount of time without a rock in a hat.
3) The plates were inarguably real because so many witnesses saw them.
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Rivendale
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by Rivendale »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:21 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:54 pm
Regular evidence would do, and it, too, is lacking.
The evidence DCP offers gemli on a regular basis:

1) Joseph Smith couldn't have known how to insert early modern English (distinct from KJV English) into the Book of Mormon.
2) The Book of Mormon is too complex to have been dictated in the amount of time without a rock in a hat.
3) The plates were inarguably real because so many witnesses saw them.
And hefted them.
dastardly stem
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by dastardly stem »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:21 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:54 pm
Regular evidence would do, and it, too, is lacking.
The evidence DCP offers gemli on a regular basis:

1) Joseph Smith couldn't have known how to insert early modern English (distinct from KJV English) into the Book of Mormon.
2) The Book of Mormon is too complex to have been dictated in the amount of time without a rock in a hat.
3) The plates were inarguably real because so many witnesses saw them.
I know you know this, but unfortunately for DCP none of these points suggests the story in the book represents history, or is a writing by ancient people.
“Every one of us is, in the cosmic perspective, precious. If a human disagrees with you, let him live. In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
drumdude
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Re: DCP claims no one has refuted LDS archeological evidence in the past 3 decades

Post by drumdude »

dastardly stem wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:33 pm
drumdude wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:21 pm


The evidence DCP offers gemli on a regular basis:

1) Joseph Smith couldn't have known how to insert early modern English (distinct from KJV English) into the Book of Mormon.
2) The Book of Mormon is too complex to have been dictated in the amount of time without a rock in a hat.
3) The plates were inarguably real because so many witnesses saw them.
I know you know this, but unfortunately for DCP none of these points suggests the story in the book represents history, or is a writing by ancient people.
He doesn't claim that these are doing anything except shifting the burden of proof off him and on us. He also expects to receive 50 page scholarly rebuttals of every single article that Interpreter publishes like a machine every single week for the last 10 years.

In other words, if there is not a critical scholarly journal working full time to refute everything Interpreter publishes, with equal or greater manpower, then Interpreter wins by default.

This is interestingly the same problem the entire world has today. There are orders of magnitude more people creating disinformation than the number of people who can refute it point by point. And this disinformation, if it appeals to people who already have a bias towards believing it, doesn't even have to have much plausibility at all. You can just keep shotgunning it out, with much less effort than it takes to refute.

It's asymmetrical guerilla information warfare, and DCP loves that. The Kremlin does too.
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