Secularists have nothing better to offer

[Philo Sofee]

Maybe the problem starts with having a sales pitch. Nothing better to offer? What are you trying to sell me? If you need to sell me, maybe I should think twice about what you are peddling.

Perhaps the great advantage of secularism is that it isn’t selling anything at all. And it isn’t asking for anything either. No tithing, no meetings, no disappointments about claims that turn out not to be true, after all.

Bottom line: I don’t get the attempt to compare “secularists” with a particular church group. Seems to me the comparison really doesn’t work. On the one hand we have people who do not make extravagant claims and promises and offer nothing in return for their message regarding the wisdom of using the scientific method and following the evidence. On the other hand, we have organizations promising the universe, demanding your money lest you lose the wonderful opportunity of obtaining it all at some unspecified future time, and then apparently failing to make good on most of their biggest claims.

Seen in that light, things don’t look too good for the churches. Sure, “secularists” don’t offer crazy amazing stuff, and that is one thing that makes it a lot easier to believe them. That and the fact that they aren’t constantly asking for 10% of your money and lots of volunteer grunt work.

p-o-w-e-r-f-u-l

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Do we really want to start comparing things secular to that of the “church”? For example, I received a secular education and a “church” education. Hands down the secular education was superior to that of the “church education system”. That’s enough in of itself to lay the matter to rest.

You know. Sometimes I wonder how and why the “church” employed these mopologists for so long. They say the dumbest crap.

- Doc

[Dr Exiled]

The church is a parasite plain and simple. 10% plus a big chunk of free time in exchange for guesses about the future, tangible for the speculative intangible. So, I don't think there is any comparison. Stay away and put your time and money to better use.

On the other hand, can't wait until prophet parasite uses his magic pen again to make some impressive scheduling changes or vocabulary changes. Claiming authority by testifying about a name is pretty amazing, too. Not many can do that with a straight face. Additionally, he just announced some more misguided real estate developments. Time and money well spent?

[dastardly stem]

I know I repeat this type of stuff a lot but I don't think it gets emphasized enough either. Dan doesn't want to imagine the moment when Jesus tells his fellow believers that he never knew them. I mean to say believers look forward to a time of beauty and love and wonder and sheer joy...for themselves is exalting in selfishness it seems to me. Sure they look forward to eternal love and peace but they have as part of their belief, many to most people won't enjoy much at all. In my mind a God who tells people this is a monster. Many will be lesser. Worse yet, on Dan's Momonism, many billions are already cut off sent to ruin for eternity...all because....I mean who knows? They ignorantly rebelled?

So back to Jesus saying he never knew them. Imagine being a believer your whole life, spending your days going to Church, praying to God, pleading with him and seeking him, thinking of him as you live your life, trying as you might to spread his word so others can partake in eternal joy. Imagine that and then facing a holy one after death and that holy one tells you, "I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity." And the same teaching, or the same source suggests this God whom you sought your whole life had already prepared a place of suffering for those whom he chooses to suffer.

To me Dan's alternative to a rational life is complete and utter misery. One must accept foolish things...that's enough for his alternative to be rejected in my mind. But if someone gets convinced by his foolish ideas, they are doing nothing much more than accepting eternal pain and suffering for many to most, all arbitrarily decreed by his God. As I see it, if I were exalted that is perfectly defining eternal misery. Being lifted up above others would suck watching pains befall everyone else. And eternal misery sent upon a person by God is obviously also eternal misery. On Dan's belief, it's tails you lose and heads you lose.

Nah...a rational life is much better. To me its simple, revel in selfishness, exalting the cause of narcissism, while accepting make believe things, or live a life seeking something good or useful.

[doubtingthomas]

the Latter-day Saint way of life, lived in the company of the Saints, is a very good place to be.

Please ask him for the evidence. Can he link to a study controlling for race, income, and nationality that proves the Saints are happier and healthier?

[Dr Exiled]

parasite
[ par-uh-sahyt ]
See synonyms for: parasite / parasites on Thesaurus.com
noun
1. an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.
2. a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others: They are greedy politicians, parasites with their snouts in the public trough.
3. (in ancient Greece) a person who received free meals in return for amusing or impudent conversation, flattering remarks, etc.

No. 2 seems pretty close to the Church and what it really does. The Church is soon to have $1Trillion in assets and in exchange gaslights the poor member into believing it is God's plan and that there will be future rewards.

[Meadowchik]

This could also be answered in relational terms. As a secularist,

What kind of marriage can I offer to a prospective spouse that the is better than what I could offer as an LDS?

What kind of childhood can I offer to my children?

What kind of friendship can I offer to prospective friends?

What can I offer to my fellow human beings in general?

As an individual in each of these scenarios, I can offer better quality relationships.

I can concede that as a secularist I do not have a ready-made community in many countries around the world. I can concede that I cannot just call up Bishop Jones in a new town and ask for help moving in. On the flip side, there is something very gratifying about finding and building community based on personal relationships as opposed to affiliation to the church.

Funnily enough, one of my recent best relationship experiences was the kindness of someone who helped me and my family move house. I learned so much about them--making it a twofold rewarding experience.

[MG 2.0]

Nah...a rational life is much better. To me its simple, revel in selfishness, exalting the cause of narcissism, while accepting make believe things, or live a life seeking something good or useful.

Rationalizing unbelief by taking the high road, huh?

Regards,
MG

[dastardly stem]

Nah...a rational life is much better. To me its simple, revel in selfishness, exalting the cause of narcissism, while accepting make believe things, or live a life seeking something good or useful.

Rationalizing unbelief by taking the high road, huh?

Regards,
MG

yes. Seeking a rational life is the better option.

[MG 2.0]

Rationalizing unbelief by taking the high road, huh?

Regards,
MG

yes. Seeking a rational life is the better option.

Hit and miss.

Regards,
MG