Jenn Kamp Files Lawsuit Against John Dehlin

[Dwight]

… used his power to get her fired after he was finished with her.

I don’t want to litigate this again, it’s not like I think JD acted right morally or ethically, but let’s at least be right in what happened. The board fired both and offered for them both to be contract 1099 workers. Rosebud balked at it and thought she and JD should take over Open Stories Foundation instead from the board. JD agreed to work as a contractor and eventually was hired back as an employee.

I think in Vermont or wherever Rosebud was when things ended, there was some rule that any relationship even if consensual could be construed as sexual harassment for a boss-employee relationship, but it was iffy on the jurisdiction and it required there be at least 50 employees or some other high number for what Open Stories Foundation was/is.

On another note I wonder why JP hasn’t popped by. Does it mean he realized it was fruitless to come around or if even he is waiting to hear more before dog piling on JD this time? I hope it is not illness or anything like that keeping him away.

[toon]

I finally listened to the Kamp youtube video. I had no idea who she was before I saw this thread, as I haven't listed to JD or any Mormon Stories podcast for some time.

I didn't see much in her video that would undermine her case or that would prompt her attorney to run. She didn't share details, and didn't say much that could be used to contradict her when she filled in details. Of course, attorneys would prefer that their clients keep their mouths shut, but sometimes a client speaking out can push a possible settlement forward. It wouldn't surprise me if this had been pre-recorded and reviewed by her attorney before it was posted.

One problem I see here is that neither JD or Open Stories Foundation have deep pockets, so the out-of-court settlement she says she would prefer might be limited.

But on the other hand, regardless of whether she was harassed and discriminated against (and I recognize that those terms often have a colloquial meaning apart from the legal definitions and that are often used as simple replacements for someone who thinks they weren't treated fairly), she claims to have filed a complaint under the Open Stories Foundation anti-harassment and discrimination policy. And filing a complaint in good faith is protected. Further, good faith doesn't mean that you have to be right, it mostly means that you were not acting with malice when filing the complaint. So if she had not been unlawfully harassed or discriminated against, but if she incorrectly but sincerely thought that she had, she was protected from retaliation. Unless Open Stories Foundation has evidence of misconduct* against her or that they can show that the reorganization/termination had been in the works prior to her complaint, the timing may be enough to get her past a motion for summary judgment.

*regarding "evidence of misconduct," I am curious what the August 25 meeting where she claims that she was intimidated and had to call a board member was about. This is speculation, but could it have been a counseling meeting about performance or other issues that she took poorly? It's often human nature for an employee confronted with performance issues to reject the counseling and conclude that something else is going on. For those here who have to write a poor or even slightly critical performance review of a subordinate employee, how many times has that employee said, "you're right, I really am a crap employee."

[Kishkumen]

I thought Jenn brought something significant to the Mormon Stories podcast. Both John and Gerardo approached the topics on an intellectual and analytical level. Jenn would draw us back into considering the human impact of whatever was being discussed, for instance, taking time to reflect on polygamy's immediate and long-term implications on human emotions.

Of course, John and Gerardo's analysis was the meat and potatoes of the podcast, but Jenn's gravy was nice.

Thank you for speaking up for Kamp and the importance of her contribution, Moksha. I am sorry that I have been so disparaging of it.

[Kishkumen]

I don’t want to litigate this again, it’s not like I think John Dehlin acted right morally or ethically, but let’s at least be right in what happened. The board fired both and offered for them both to be contract 1099 workers. Rosebud balked at it and thought she and John Dehlin should take over Open Stories Foundation instead from the board. John Dehlin agreed to work as a contractor and eventually was hired back as an employee.

Thanks for reminding us of these important point, Dwight. All true.

[Kishkumen]

But on the other hand, regardless of whether she was harassed and discriminated against (and I recognize that those terms often have a colloquial meaning apart from the legal definitions and that are often used as simple replacements for someone who thinks they weren't treated fairly), she claims to have filed a complaint under the Open Stories Foundation anti-harassment and discrimination policy. And filing a complaint in good faith is protected. Further, good faith doesn't mean that you have to be right, it mostly means that you were not acting with malice when filing the complaint. So if she had not been unlawfully harassed or discriminated against, but if she incorrectly but sincerely thought that she had, she was protected from retaliation. Unless Open Stories Foundation has evidence of misconduct* against her or that they can show that the reorganization/termination had been in the works prior to her complaint, the timing may be enough to get her past a motion for summary judgment.

*regarding "evidence of misconduct," I am curious what the August 25 meeting where she claims that she was intimidated and had to call a board member was about. This is speculation, but could it have been a counseling meeting about performance or other issues that she took poorly? It's often human nature for an employee confronted with performance issues to reject the counseling and conclude that something else is going on. For those here who have to write a poor or even slightly critical performance review of a subordinate employee, how many times has that employee said, "you're right, I really am a crap employee."

Wonderful! Thanks for this input, toon. We all benefit from the best information brought to the table. You will most likely see such evidence about the meeting coming forth in the future to satisfy your curiosity.

[Marcus]

....but this string of disgruntled former Open Stories Foundation employees is definitely evidence of bad HR or managerial practices.

I am completely in agreement w this statement.

The conspiracy theories? Not so much. The above is a far simpler and far more likely explanation.

[Kishkumen]

I am completely in agreement w this statement.

The conspiracy theories? Not so much. The above is a far simpler and far more likely explanation.

Yeah, probably so.

[Marcus]

... she claims to have filed a complaint under the Open Stories Foundation anti-harassment and discrimination policy. And filing a complaint in good faith is protected. Further, good faith doesn't mean that you have to be right, it mostly means that you were not acting with malice when filing the complaint. So if she had not been unlawfully harassed or discriminated against, but if she incorrectly but sincerely thought that she had, she was protected from retaliation. Unless Open Stories Foundation has evidence of misconduct* against her or that they can show that the reorganization/termination had been in the works prior to her complaint, the timing may be enough to get her past a motion for summary judgment....

This is a very important point. If I recall correctly, she stated that she thought the Board did not follow their own anti-retaliation policy, upon receipt of her complaint.

Your statement about timing may be the key issue here.

[pistolero]

I don’t want to litigate this again, it’s not like I think John Dehlin acted right morally or ethically, but let’s at least be right in what happened. The board fired both and offered for them both to be contract 1099 workers. Rosebud balked at it and thought she and John Dehlin should take over Open Stories Foundation instead from the board. John Dehlin agreed to work as a contractor and eventually was hired back as an employee.

I think in Vermont or wherever Rosebud was when things ended, there was some rule that any relationship even if consensual could be construed as sexual harassment for a boss-employee relationship, but it was iffy on the jurisdiction and it required there be at least 50 employees or some other high number for what Open Stories Foundation was/is.

This rings plenty more bells with regards to the reality that we forensically dissected in that monster thread years back.

There are lots of matter-of-fact statements regarding JD sexually harassing she that shall not be named being thrown around, but I don't think this has been proven? The details that Dwight points out are frequently conveniently forgotten, and although may seem like a technicalities, are important.

With our partial access to the evidence, in the public court of DM.com, it seems possible that there was some sexually harassment, but again, I don't know if I have all of the facts to make a sound, watertight judgement. I did really appreciate the monster thread, I felt like I learned something, particularly regarding the law in a different jurisdiction to my own and it helped me understand the circumstances better, but it was really hard to get to a point where I felt JD was guilty of much more than foolishness, infidelity, etc... - although I'm not sure what standard of proof I should be applying anyway - it's actually none of my business, probably.

Anyway, this thread is about someone else. As most have noted, except A. Grubbs it seems, Jenn Kamp has no need to make that video. It says more about her than him. Let the lawyers do their lawyering.

I understand that she that shall not be named pursued legal avenues, but was unsuccessful, hence the internet hit pieces/videos now.

On another note I wonder why JP hasn’t popped by. Does it mean he realized it was fruitless to come around or if even he is waiting to hear more before dog piling on John Dehlin this time? I hope it is not illness or anything like that keeping him away.

I suspect JP is still redacting the promised evidence from years back and doesn't have time to keep up with these threads.

Still waiting for those documents. Wasn't she that shall not be named crowd sourcing the redactions on her website at one point?

I fully expect JP to be engaged as the official spokesperson for Jenn Kamp as soon as he becomes available.

[DrStakhanovite]

Grifting shitpot and Z-List celebrity is once again being accused of uncouth behavior? Heck yeah! Can’t wait to see those emotional WAHMEN get totally PWNED because of their lack of LOGIC AND EVIDENCE.