Jenn Kamp Files Lawsuit Against John Dehlin

[Res Ipsa]

Did the Open Stories Foundation Board respond in writing to Kamp's claim that they violated their own anti-retaliation policy?

I am curious about this as well.

Not surprisingly, it is VERY common for underperforming employees to become agitated and disruptive, raising all sorts of complaints in the process of being shown the door. I think it's more than blame-shifting the problem to the employer, although that is a significant outcome (along with the predictable anti-retaliation lawsuits). There is also cognitive dissonance people naturally feel when they pour their heart into a job, only to be informed that they're not great at the job. This is especially acute in startups, where a single wrongly-fitted employee can sink the ship.

Usually these lawsuits go nowhere, if the documentation exists. Or to save everyone time and hassle, the company may try to settle. But most companies hold the line and threaten to drag it out, for good reason because corrective action documentation is incredibly strong evidence against claims of retaliation for complaints such as Jenn's.

So if the objective reality is that Jenn was not a good fit, not getting the job done, or not working hard enough, that should be documented in various direct feedback and/or corrective action emails. Those things are composed in a certain way -- specific, direct, in context of professional feedback, what is wrong and what would need to improve for the employee-employer relationship to continue.

If that documentation doesn't exist, then John is still the idiot he was in the Rosebud days. This isn't to say I think RFM has that documentation. I highly doubt it. That's where all the leverage is and John would only harm himself and Open Stories Foundation by leaking them to the public.

If a lawsuit was started, there will be an answer to the complaint, but it's likely to consist of "denied." In terms of explanations, that will either trickle out in discovery, be explained in a post-discovery motion for summary judgment, set out in a trial brief, or explained in closing argument. The defendants would be fools to issue any sort of explanation at this point. I suspect it will be a while before meaningful evidence emerges (absent, of course, leaked information).

[Dr Exiled]

Does anyone know how Mormon Stories is doing in the ratings? I don't watch the exit narrative stories because I am beyond that now ... and I really didn't like them to begin with as they are the same thing over and over again. If I watch/listen, it is for the John Larsen episodes. I liked him on his prior show and I think he has some well-reasoned comments when he's on Mormon Stories. So, is there a drop in the ratings? If so, nothing like a juicy lawsuit to spice things up a little? Trump's popularity with his base seems to increase each time he is in legal trouble. I think Johnny Depp's popularity surged during his recent lawsuit. Welcome to the lawsuit drama Mormon style?

In this corner we have the wolf in sheep's clothing John Dehlin. Just look at him, so brash and demanding and not free from a silly, devoid of actual sex, affair with Rosebud. He probably drinks alcohol, despite his claims. That guy certainly fakes his emotion and caring attitude. He had a plan to destroy the church one exit narrative at a time (let's pile on says certain people at 47 E. South Temple) ....

In the other corner we have the emotional virgin mary figure, trying her best to wade through leaving the church and is probably crying as I write this, didn't realize she was facing a total wolf (according to her) when she went to work each day, couldn't take the truth, but the harsh reviewers should have known this, but deliberately said the truth to her anyway, not caring about her pain and suffering that would result. She's the true eggshell plaintiff. Together with her army of Dehlin haters, Kate Kelly leading the way, she now carries the banner for women's rights ....

Sounds like fun. Perhaps we can have a public trial? I bet that'll bring eyes and ears to the parties' podcast locations. Stay tuned .......

[drumdude]

A different viewpoint one could take is that two parties are both making affirmative statements, and neither has produced evidence. It seems obvious one is restricted by their lawyer in what statements to make and in my opinion probably shouldn't have said anything; the other is implying with tasteless jokes that they have access to documents that may or may not be confidential, available, or even real.

There is nothing further to conclude until the evidence is available.

Well said.

[Kishkumen]

A different viewpoint one could take is that two parties are both making affirmative statements, and neither has produced evidence. It seems obvious one is restricted by their lawyer in what statements to make and in my opinion probably shouldn't have said anything; the other is implying with tasteless jokes that they have access to documents that may or may not be confidential, available, or even real.

There is nothing further to conclude until the evidence is available.

Yes, there is nothing further to conclude until the evidence is available. When Kamp brings it forward in the legal process, then Open Stories Foundation, or people representing Open Stories Foundation, can respond with their contradicting evidence, if they indeed have it. And, to Dr Moore's point, there can be different kinds of documentation. People can have recordings, for example. She may have recordings. They may have recordings. Documentation is not just pieces of paper these days. There are also other forms of electronic verification that can be used in regard to other claims.

I don't think any of us will be made privy to the evidence for quite some time, if ever. Hopefully the R debacle taught everyone some good lessons. I see Kamp has removed the video, so it looks like she will be wiser than R in how she approaches this, and I say good for her. We'll see how it all pans out.

[Kishkumen]

In the other corner we have the emotional virgin mary figure, trying her best to wade through leaving the church and is probably crying as I write this, didn't realize she was facing a total wolf (according to her) when she went to work each day....

Yeah, she had never even heard of R. Does she know KK? No way!!!

[Dr Exiled]

In the other corner we have the emotional virgin mary figure, trying her best to wade through leaving the church and is probably crying as I write this, didn't realize she was facing a total wolf (according to her) when she went to work each day....

Yeah, she had never even heard of R. Does she know KK? No way!!!

Well,that could change .... . There's blood in the water for those Dehlin haters out there.

But to your point above, we have to be patient here. We may never get the entire picture and settlements are always covered by an NDA.

Ratings, though, baby, ratings ... just think of how many in the ex-Mormon/Mormon online poster community would want to tune into a live trial streamed over the internet? People want to tear down Dehlin for sure. It wouldn't be like the Depp trial but would definitely be interesting. KK et. al would try to get all their grievances in and Dehlin would probably be able to wade through it, subtly injecting and imputing a jealousy/sour grapes angle on to his wanna be podcasting enemies.

[Kishkumen]

Oh, I am pretty sure she knows of and may even know R and KK.

[Moksha]

Perhaps we can have a public trial? I bet that'll bring eyes and ears to the parties' podcast locations. Stay tuned .......

Huh? The Shades Court has been in session for several days now, although we have yet to hear the amicus brief from JPatterson and Rosebud.

[Dr Exiled]

Perhaps we can have a public trial? I bet that'll bring eyes and ears to the parties' podcast locations. Stay tuned .......

Huh? The Shades Court has been in session for several days now, although we have yet to hear the amicus brief from JPatterson and Rosebud.

Yes, the Shades Court is in session but we need to see the parties and their witnesses live. Heck, it'll probably drive traffic to this site as well as to Dehlin's and Consig's sites. My advice to JD is to not settle. The crowd demands some legal drama and publicly putting an end to this once and for all will dissuade future plaintiffs.

[dastardly stem]

I'd imagine its hard to make something out of unspecified complaints but we humans have grown adept at it. That's often all we need--some little complaint itching in our ears about something we don't like. I mean just watch complaints about the Church. Often it doesn't take much to make a mountain out of a molehill with Church allegations. You can watch Dehlin's podcast shows for some of that. Indeed Dehlin has made his career off of un-evidenced complaints, playing the whole people telling their truths thing and all of that. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed his show (although it's been quite a while since I sat down gave any a real listen), at various times but I think as listeners, we often have to take what people say and be a little skeptical or think, "okay, that's what you think happened, but its likely at least a little different." I mean put microphones in front of people's faces and they have to tell a story, after all. And if sympathy efforts are involved tweaking things a certain way seems not only inevitable but necessary. Its certainly not like Dehlin is following up on all the stories and allegations people say on his show.

I can't tell if these complaints about him from women are all just empty complaints taking his schtick another step down the road or if these are legitimate complaints. Some of this just seems like a natural outflow of his work. What would we expect from a bunch of people putting their emotional selves out there for others to feed off of? I'd imagine plenty will just continue down that emotional drain, making as much noise as they go down.

There's also that silly saying "usually when there's smoke there's fire". But it's also possible there's nothing there. I suppose that's why we have to qualify it with "usually". This Kamp lady is just steaming off some smoke because it feels like it's the natural next step "i was a part of one organization that hurt me. Then I got all hooked up in another and I end up hurt again. What's the deal?" The other women could be just more of the same. I'm not convinced either way here. A few women complain? Sounds like something I suppose. That Kamp complained, most recently, and put it out there might be her making noise, seeking attention. Or it could be there's something legit to her complaints. I suppose as we travel along in the world and more complaints from women come out about Dehlin, which I suppose we can expect given the history, we may just continue to ask the same questions and see no answers from him, his friends, or the women. At least nothing very satisfying. It'd be tough to have public complaints out there you don't think are true. Your hands would be tied. Nearly every public statement you'd make about it would be scrutinized and may even get turned against you. If he's not the meanie who deserves to be publicly called out and legally challenged, like Kamp and others think, then it's a shame.