Why Do We Do It?

[Gadianton]

Yeah, I've asked myself this a couple times since coming back after the last break. I'm not sure why I keep returning. Some of the threads are a little painful to read as a believer. I wish there were more believers here, but in the old days, that sometimes just meant arguments got out of hand.

I personally think when I try to understand the perspective of the non-believer I understand my own position better. When I'm itching to return here, I think it is because I feel a little stagnant. I certainly don't think I have much to say on many of the threads (I almost never read Daniel Peterson's stuff), but the threads that are talking about deeper topics are rather satisfying to me.

I thought you were a non-believer just barely hanging on for family or nostalgia.

Not to be rude, but your posts so far haven't convinced me that you believe that much. Maybe you're just being judicious and trying not to offend people and I misinterpret that?

I may have a jaded view of believers.

[JohnW]

Yeah, I've asked myself this a couple times since coming back after the last break. I'm not sure why I keep returning. Some of the threads are a little painful to read as a believer. I wish there were more believers here, but in the old days, that sometimes just meant arguments got out of hand.

I personally think when I try to understand the perspective of the non-believer I understand my own position better. When I'm itching to return here, I think it is because I feel a little stagnant. I certainly don't think I have much to say on many of the threads (I almost never read Daniel Peterson's stuff), but the threads that are talking about deeper topics are rather satisfying to me.

I thought you were a non-believer just barely hanging on for family or nostalgia.

Not to be rude, but your posts so far haven't convinced me that you believe that much. Maybe you're just being judicious and trying not to offend people and I misinterpret that?

I may have a jaded view of believers.

I'm definitely a believer. Don't worry. No offense taken. Yeah, unfortunately sometimes believers who, shall we say, aggressively post in forums like these can give people the wrong impression. Believers who aren't quite as aggressive tend to lose interest and drop off. I sometimes find myself in that category.

[IHAQ]

I thought you were a non-believer just barely hanging on for family or nostalgia.

Not to be rude, but your posts so far haven't convinced me that you believe that much. Maybe you're just being judicious and trying not to offend people and I misinterpret that?

I may have a jaded view of believers.

I'm definitely a believer. Don't worry. No offense taken. Yeah, unfortunately sometimes believers who, shall we say, aggressively post in forums like these can give people the wrong impression. Believers who aren't quite as aggressive tend to lose interest and drop off. I sometimes find myself in that category.

From the views I've seen you post on here, I don't think you are a "believer". You may believe some aspects, but your stated views are more liberal than the church doctrine would allow for. Maybe you're better described as a cafeteria believer?

[Wonhyo]

We do it because it is, or has been, cathartic for some of us to bounce Mormon issues off one another, whatever our respective experiences in and positions on Mormonism might be.

We do it because it is, or can be, entertaining and fun.

We do it because MDB is the most open, most free, and most tolerant online forum for these issues. (Thank you, Dr. Shades!) Much of what we say here, no matter how innocuous, wouldn't last long before deletion, banning, and other heavy-handed moderation on other Mormon boards.

We do it because Dan Peterson, the Mopologist super-friends, the SCMC, and others check in here regularly. It's frankly loads of fun to gently push their buttons. Threads and comments here have often resulted in Dan and others furiously typing away into the night in order to correct perceived errors, set their readers straight, and defend their fiefdom. Is there any other Mormon board that has been temporarily shut down over the threat of legal action by Dan and the Mopologists? Nope. This is it. That, in itself, is a badge of Mormon honor.

We do it because we care. Many of us here were TBMs in the not so distant past. Many of us served missions. We tried to make sense of the nonsensical when faced with difficult realities about the church and its origins. We tried to understand while holding onto that blissfully ignorant belief in something magical. Painfully, we slowly learned to let go, to be more flexible, to be less strident, to be gentler and kinder, to be more tolerant of other viewpoints from outside our religious bubbles. If we didn't care about our personal Mormonism, we wouldn't have come here and we wouldn't be here.

[JohnW]

I'm definitely a believer. Don't worry. No offense taken. Yeah, unfortunately sometimes believers who, shall we say, aggressively post in forums like these can give people the wrong impression. Believers who aren't quite as aggressive tend to lose interest and drop off. I sometimes find myself in that category.

From the views I've seen you post on here, I don't think you are a "believer". You may believe some aspects, but your stated views are more liberal than the church doctrine would allow for. Maybe you're better described as a cafeteria believer?

Ha! Interesting you say that. No, no cafeteria going on here. I sometimes have a hard time eating my vegetables, but deep down I know it is good for me. I think, as Gadianton described above, you must have some picture of what a believer is which I do not fit. I will agree that I do not fit the same mold as the aggressive online apologist, if there is such a mold, but my beliefs and church doctrine are the same thing. Yes, there are things I still don't understand well. There are things I still struggle with from time to time. But overall, no real mismatch going on here except the general mismatch that comes from a random natural man trying to become more like God. I guarantee that the average ward is chuck full of people like me. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Probably just a thing.

I find that people who have left the church often have a warped sense of what it means to be a member or a believer. Sometimes this is because of particular bad experiences they've had with members (yeah, sometimes in the average ward the members themselves can be our own worst enemy). Sometimes there are one or two doctrines or policies that are important enough to them to become their hill to die on. Sometimes former members have just inadvertently crafted a strange, straw-man set of beliefs which is twisted enough that nobody in their right mind would believe it. I don't exactly blame them, because for quite a long time I had a very warped sense of what it means to be a non-member or an anti-Mormon. I think this is just a natural thing we humans do to those outside our "tribe".

Back to the OP, I think it was this board that had a lot to do with changing my view of what non-members and former members actually believe. Yes, there are a handful of people here who fit the stereotypical mold of an anti-Mormon, but most people here are just normal, regular folks with a common thing they want to talk about. A few people here are similar enough to me in how I think and act that I'm sure if I knew them in person, we would become close friends, despite our clear differences in religious beliefs.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I find that people who have left the church often have a warped sense of what it means to be a member or a believer. Sometimes this is because of particular bad experiences they've had with members (yeah, sometimes in the average ward the members themselves can be our own worst enemy). Sometimes there are one or two doctrines or policies that are important enough to them to become their hill to die on. Sometimes former members have just inadvertently crafted a strange, straw-man set of beliefs which is twisted enough that nobody in their right mind would believe it. I don't exactly blame them, because for quite a long time I had a very warped sense of what it means to be a non-member or an anti-Mormon. I think this is just a natural thing we humans do to those outside our "tribe".

[malkie]

From the views I've seen you post on here, I don't think you are a "believer". You may believe some aspects, but your stated views are more liberal than the church doctrine would allow for. Maybe you're better described as a cafeteria believer?

...
I guarantee that the average ward is chuck full of people like me. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Probably just a thing.
...

I would expect that the average ward is chock full of cafeteria believers - each with their own set of accepted, doubted, and disbelieved teachings which they seem to firmly believe makes them true believers.

Just look at the reactions of members across the spectrum to messages from GAs that may or may not agree with their (the members') political views. Examples from recent news stories: support for same-sex marriage; masking & vaccinations for COVID etc; the vast wealth of the church.

The funny thing is that it seems that not only do individual members hold unique sets of beliefs, but also they are quick to judge others with a slightly different set, and brand them as apostates.

[IHAQ]

...
I guarantee that the average ward is chuck full of people like me. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. Probably just a thing.
...

I would expect that the average ward is chock full of cafeteria believers - each with their own set of accepted, doubted, and disbelieved teachings which they seem to firmly believe makes them true believers.

Just look at the reactions of members across the spectrum to messages from GAs that may or may not agree with their (the members') political views. Examples from recent news stories: support for same-sex marriage; masking & vaccinations for COVID etc; the vast wealth of the church.

The funny thing is that it seems that not only do individual members hold unique sets of beliefs, but also they are quick to judge others with a slightly different set, and brand them as apostates.

I'm not convinced the 15 Apostles hold a consistent set of beliefs amongst them. They too are quick to judge others - Holland recently berated a group of active young people and told them that if they left activity in the Church then they lacked integrity.

[Philo Sofee]

We do it because it is, or has been, cathartic for some of us to bounce Mormon issues off one another, whatever our respective experiences in and positions on Mormonism might be.

We do it because it is, or can be, entertaining and fun.

We do it because MDB is the most open, most free, and most tolerant online forum for these issues. (Thank you, Dr. Shades!) Much of what we say here, no matter how innocuous, wouldn't last long before deletion, banning, and other heavy-handed moderation on other Mormon boards.

We do it because Dan Peterson, the Mopologist super-friends, the SCMC, and others check in here regularly. It's frankly loads of fun to gently push their buttons. Threads and comments here have often resulted in Dan and others furiously typing away into the night in order to correct perceived errors, set their readers straight, and defend their fiefdom. Is there any other Mormon board that has been temporarily shut down over the threat of legal action by Dan and the Mopologists? Nope. This is it. That, in itself, is a badge of Mormon honor.

We do it because we care. Many of us here were TBMs in the not so distant past. Many of us served missions. We tried to make sense of the nonsensical when faced with difficult realities about the church and its origins. We tried to understand while holding onto that blissfully ignorant belief in something magical. Painfully, we slowly learned to let go, to be more flexible, to be less strident, to be gentler and kinder, to be more tolerant of other viewpoints from outside our religious bubbles. If we didn't care about our personal Mormonism, we wouldn't have come here and we wouldn't be here.

Well said. Just very gosh dang well said - here here!