If Jesus Christ appeared to you in a Mormon Temple

[drumdude]

Would you join the Methodists a few years later?

[tagriffy]

Not to be glib ... no, strike that. To be glib, it depends on the circumstances.

[drumdude]

https://www.deseret.com/2016/4/3/205859 ... ?_amp=true

Robert L. Millet, emeritus dean of religious education at BYU:

Joseph and Oliver knelt in prayer behind drawn curtains adjacent to the large pulpits on the west side of the main floor of the Kirtland Temple. After rising from prayer, a remarkable vision burst upon them.

First and foremost, Jesus Christ appeared. In fulfillment of prophecy, he came to his temple (Malachi 3:1; Doctrine & Covenants 36:8; 42:36; 133:2) — the first to be properly authorized by him for centuries.

The eyewitnesses reported, “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah” (D&C 110:3).

The Savior accepted the offering of his Saints and then declared that "the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out" through this first temple of the last dispensation (D&C 110:9).

The three heavenly messengers who then appeared, one after another, laid the foundation for the latter-day establishment of eternal families.

Moses appeared and restored the keys of the gathering of Israel, the formal charge to take the message of salvation to the world and bring people into the restored church through baptism and conversion.

Elias appeared and committed to Joseph and Oliver what we know as the Abrahamic Covenant, which includes the power to create eternal family units through the new and everlasting covenant of marriage.

Finally, Elijah appeared and committed the power to bind and seal those families together forever.

The keys of the priesthood restored on this occasion opened to the Saints the capstone blessings of the gospel of Jesus Christ; this sacred labor provides purpose and perspective relative to all other gospel principles, covenants and ordinances.

The circumstances are you just witnessed Jesus, Moses, and angels restoring lost covenants, keys, etc.

I can’t imagine any scenario after this in which I would go “well I guess I’ll join another religion now.”

[tagriffy]

Since your point is they did, then obviously there is a scenario in which it could happen.

[drumdude]

Since you point is they did, then obviously there is a scenario in which it could happen.

You’re every defense attorney’s dream juror!

[tagriffy]

<shrug>

[Doctor Steuss]

If nothing else, this throws a cog in the wheel of the "room for faith" and "preserve agency" explanations for why we're relegated to nothing but warm fuzzies.

If seeing Jesus doesn't impede agency and faith, then there's not much reason for the ancient artifacts that were key to the restoration to have been whisked away to the celestial vault. Or for angelic manifestations to be as commonplace in the modern church and temples as they were in the early days.

Jesus > Gold Plates

[drumdude]

I think it’s important to remember how hum-drum and common place all these visions were back in the early 1800s. The modern LDS church tries desperately to make these visions concrete and objectively real. “There was a real Book of Mormon on gold plates! There were real Lamanites! Jesus really came to the Kirtland temple!”

But if you could actually talk to the people back then, really get into their heads, you’d quickly realize that they didn’t take these visions as literally as LDS apologists think they did. Everything was wishy-washy, through a glass darkly, “spiritual eyes” magical nonsense. The important part was the subjective spiritual experience, not that it was objectively real.

[tagriffy]

Now there is something I can agree with!

[Res Ipsa]

Since you point is they did, then obviously there is a scenario in which it could happen.

You’re every defense attorney’s dream juror!

That's why we have those preemptory challenges.