The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

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IHAQ
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The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by IHAQ »

Hancock (emboldened to come out from under his rock by Gilberts appointment) chips in under the headline "Betrayal At BYU?"
“Some people in the extended community are feeling abandoned and betrayed by BYU. It seems that some professors … are supporting ideas that many of us feel are contradictory to gospel principles… Several parents … no longer want to send their children here or donate to the school.” Elder Jeffrey R. Holland read these words from a letter he had received to an annual conference of all BYU faculty, administration, and staff on August 23, 2021. Elder Holland went on discuss the Church’s doctrine of marriage and family as a critical area of concern and cited then Elder Oaks and Elder Maxwell on the need for BYU faculty, like Nauvoo temple workers who had to defend as well as build, to take up intellectual “muskets” in defense of the Restored Gospel. He went on to cite President Kimball’s 1975 “Second Century” address at BYU in order to remind the university of its need, not just to be an excellent university by common academic standards, but to be truly unique as a Latter-day Saint University: “[W]e must have the will to be different and to stand alone, if necessary,” Elder Holland emphasized, even at the cost of certain “professional affiliations and certifications.”

Elder Holland’s words were a clarion call to refocus on BYU’s true and unique mission. Happily, they have not gone without effect. Those eager to criticize Elder Holland’s counsel to BYU seized upon his references to “musket fire,” some even pretending to fear for their lives in the supposedly hostile environment that Elder Holland’s words had created. But Holland’s critics overlooked what may prove to be the most consequential part of his talk, that is, the moment when he introduced Elder Clark Gilbert, Commissioner of Church Education, and asked him to visit the campus often and essentially to preside over the process of mission realignment that the apostle was effectively calling for.

A Time of Reckoning

Elder Gilbert has certainly taken on the assignment of BYU mission realignment with energy and conviction. His messages to the whole university and to meetings for leaders and officers have made it very clear that he will assure that Elder Holland’s concerns, and those of many BYU parents and donors, regarding the university’s mission-drift are addressed.
https://latterdaysaintmag.com/betrayal- ... +5%2C+2022

Lauding an ousting...hell hath no fury and all that.
In other instances, we must be willing to break with the educational establishment (not foolishly or cavalierly, but thoughtfully and for good reason) in order to find gospel ways to help mankind. Gospel methodology, concepts, and insights can help us to do what the world cannot do in its own frame of reference.
So get on with it, break with the educational establishment and pursue your one-eyed bigoted abusive agenda without the halo of being part of a wider educational system that fosters equality and understanding.

Gilbert is clearly the LDS enforcer, come to do what Worthen was incapable of doing, bringing BYU to heel. There's hope yet that FARMSIAN attack dog apologetics will once more ring around the corridors of BYU. What right-minded individual would want to work at an institution that fires people for being openly sympathetic to the plight of the LGBQT community? George Orwell was unwittingly writing about BYU.
In some ways the Church Educational System, in order to be unique in the years that lie ahead, may have to break with certain patterns of the educational establishment. When the world has lost its way on matters of ­principle, we have an obligation to point the way. We can, as Brigham Young hoped we would, “be a people of profound learning ­pertaining to the things of the world,”32 but without being tainted by what he regarded as “the pernicious, atheistic influences”33 that flood in unless we are watchful. Our scholars, therefore, must be sentries as well as teachers!”
The educational establishment needs to jettison BYU. It will be better for both parties.
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Kishkumen
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Kishkumen »

I feel badly for my friends at BYU. I doubt they want to be at Liberty University. There is already such a place. BYU doesn’t need to aspire to be another one. Didn’t BYU-I already achieve that goal? Let’s hear it for a little variety! If you want to go to a four-year seminary with some worldly facts thrown in, go to BYU-I. If you want to go to a university with a bunch of sharp LDS kids, BYU Provo for you!
"He disturbs the laws of his country, he forces himself upon women, and he puts men to death without trial.” ~Otanes on the monarch, Herodotus Histories 3.80.
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Moksha »

Apologists realize that education at BYU must be governed by the rules of blood and iron that are eternally the same. Otherwise, the liberality of education will corrupt the minds of the Saints. It is important for BYU to reinforce the world's view that the Saints are a peculiar people who will not hesitate to use musket fire in enforcing LDS doctrine.
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Wonhyo
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Wonhyo »

It's hard for me to read this Meridian article from Dr. Hancock without sensing anew what's always been, at least for me, the two biggest flaws with Mopologetics:

Namely, that only they can be correct AND that they have the backing of the Brethren (and then there's usually a name-drop or two).

Hancock has played the patient waiting game very well. When he used to regularly write over at Patheos, on his blog "The Soul and the City", he often composed verbose laments for the erosion of political and religious conservatism. (The jettisoning of Mopologetics from the Maxwell Institute seems to have motivated his blogging back then, although I don't recall Hancock being much involved in classic FARMS. I may be wrong and I'll own it if I am.)

Now, with the arrival of ECO on the BYU campus to keep the faculty's viewpoints and academia in line, Hancock is publicly celebrating on Meridian. He's waited a long time for the thought police to come and liberate him and his school-under-siege. Good for Hancock. Bad for BYU.
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Tom
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Tom »

Wonhyo wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:22 pm
It's hard for me to read this Meridian article from Dr. Hancock without sensing anew what's always been, at least for me, the two biggest flaws with Mopologetics:

Namely, that only they can be correct AND that they have the backing of the Brethren (and then there's usually a name-drop or two).

Hancock has played the patient waiting game very well. When he used to regularly write over at Patheos, on his blog "The Soul and the City", he often composed verbose laments for the erosion of political and religious conservatism. (The jettisoning of Mopologetics from the Maxwell Institute seems to have motivated his blogging back then, although I don't recall Hancock being much involved in classic FARMS. I may be wrong and I'll own it if I am.
He published a few book reviews for FARMS (1997, 2002, 2007). I think his involvement was limited.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Doctor Steuss »

What exactly is "gospel methodology"?
Alphus and Omegus
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

IHAQ wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:47 am
In some ways the Church Educational System, in order to be unique in the years that lie ahead, may have to break with certain patterns of the educational establishment. When the world has lost its way on matters of ­principle, we have an obligation to point the way. We can, as Brigham Young hoped we would, “be a people of profound learning ­pertaining to the things of the world,”32 but without being tainted by what he regarded as “the pernicious, atheistic influences”33 that flood in unless we are watchful. Our scholars, therefore, must be sentries as well as teachers!”
The educational establishment needs to jettison BYU. It will be better for both parties.
This essay was a great example of how religious right lunatics actively seek to censor and destroy academic freedom. The people who whine the most about "cancel culture" actually are the biggest practitioners of it.
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Wonhyo
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Wonhyo »

Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:23 pm

This essay was a great example of how religious right lunatics actively seek to censor and destroy academic freedom. The people who whine the most about "cancel culture" actually are the biggest practitioners of it.
The irony of this may be lost on the religious and political right. But even if some are aware of it, it's really only a problem for them when they or their ideological brethren are being cancelled.
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Alphus and Omegus
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Alphus and Omegus »

Wonhyo wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:30 pm
Alphus and Omegus wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:23 pm

This essay was a great example of how religious right lunatics actively seek to censor and destroy academic freedom. The people who whine the most about "cancel culture" actually are the biggest practitioners of it.
The irony of this may be lost on the religious and political right. But even if some are aware of it, it's really only a problem for them when they or their ideological brethren are being cancelled.
Very true. Fundamentalist morality is about power rather than consistent logic and philosophy.
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Re: The Mopologists are happy BYU is firing people.

Post by Dwight »

This applies to the wider church leadership. Let's look at the church historian position. It is and has been filled by lawyers rather than actual historians for a long time. Who knows where history or academics might take you, but it's a lot easier for a lawyer who is trained and familiar with rhetoric to say the right things, to not lie, but to not be honest, such that the foregone conclusion is reached and supported.

If you are a mopologist you don't want some academic to be questioning your work, certainly not one at BYU and thus on the face an active believing tithe paying member.
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