Mormons ignoring Jesus as quoted in the gospel of Matthew

[MG 2.0]

Different time. Ancient world. Corrupted records/accounts/agendas/histories/biases and prejudices.

Don’t go whole hog judging Jesus on the Old Testament and those that drafted and compiled it.

Regards,
MG

Are you saying Mormon God suffers from situational ethics?

I think so.

And that’s not a contradiction with scriptures that say “same yesterday as today, etc.”

You’ve heard people, back in your believing days, say something like “The Lord can only work with what He’s got.”

And you may have even believed it.

Situational ethics. God can only reveal that which can be received. You’re a different kind of guy than your ancestor from a thousand years ago. He knew more than you did about some stuff and visa versa. God spoke to folks like him differently.

Language, culture…a whole slew of things make for situational differences that then dictate how much or how little God can give. Is it then bad/good that He gives more/less?

Regards,
MG

[Morley]

Are you saying Mormon God suffers from situational ethics?

I think so.

Wow. But given your statements in the Question for Mo Experts thread, I shouldn't be surprised.

And that’s not a contradiction with scriptures that say “same yesterday as today, etc.”

Yes it is.

You’ve heard people, back in your believing days, say something like “The Lord can only work with what He’s got.”

Because it's not like God is omnipotent or anything.

And you may have even believed it.

No. Not even back then.

Situational ethics. God can only reveal that which can be received.

That's not what "situational ethics" means.

You’re a different kind of guy than your ancestor from a thousand years ago. He knew more than you did about some stuff and visa versa. God spoke to folks like him differently.

Language, culture…a whole slew of things make for situational differences that then dictate how much or how little God can give.

Because it's not like God was omnipotent back then.

Is it then bad/good that He gives more/less?

Yes.

[Bret Ripley]

Situational ethics. God can only reveal that which can be received.

That's not what "situational ethics" means.

ChatGPT, explain situational ethics. Um, in iambic pentameter.

Situational ethics is a moral code
That states, in certain cases, one may go
Against what’s normally thought of as right,
And make a choice based on the situation's plight.
The goal is still to choose the greater good,
And weigh the outcomes as one ought.

Cool, but could you dumb that down for me?

Ok, so situational ethics is like when you do something that's normally wrong but you do it anyway because the situation is special or different. It's like bending the rules or being flexible with right and wrong depending on the circumstances. It's like, sometimes it's okay to cheat a little or tell a lie if it leads to a good outcome, ya know? It's like, you have to weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision you can in the moment. That's basically situational ethics in a nutshell.

[¥akaSteelhead]

Situational ethics... Like this?

That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another. God said, "Thou shalt not kill;" at another time He said, "Thou shalt utterly destroy." This is the principle on which the government of heaven is conducted--by revelation adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire.

Joseph Smith

[malkie]

That's not what "situational ethics" means.

ChatGPT, explain situational ethics. Um, in iambic pentameter.

Situational ethics is a moral code
That states, in certain cases, one may go
Against what’s normally thought of as right,
And make a choice based on the situation's plight.
The goal is still to choose the greater good,
And weigh the outcomes as one ought.

Cool, but could you dumb that down for me?

Ok, so situational ethics is like when you do something that's normally wrong but you do it anyway because the situation is special or different. It's like bending the rules or being flexible with right and wrong depending on the circumstances. It's like, sometimes it's okay to cheat a little or tell a lie if it leads to a good outcome, ya know? It's like, you have to weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision you can in the moment. That's basically situational ethics in a nutshell.

Isn't that amazing - Joseph Smith's god had the same view of ethics as he, Joseph, did:

“That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another. God said, 'Thou shalt not kill'; at another time He said, 'Thou shalt utterly destroy.' This is the principle on which the government of heaven is conducted—by revelation adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire.”

I wonder if Joseph ever benefitted from that teaching - perhaps persuading others of its value.

I suppose that it depends on the situation, the judgement to be made, or action to be taken, and the intent, among other considerations.

The way it's stated here - that what god requires is right - is a bit iffy if god does not actually exist, and the human making use of the concept is just satisfying his own desires.

[MG 2.0]

ChatGPT, explain situational ethics. Um, in iambic pentameter.

Cool, but could you dumb that down for me?

Isn't that amazing - Joseph Smith's god had the same view of ethics as he, Joseph, did:

“That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another. God said, 'Thou shalt not kill'; at another time He said, 'Thou shalt utterly destroy.' This is the principle on which the government of heaven is conducted—by revelation adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire.”

I wonder if Joseph ever benefitted from that teaching - perhaps persuading others of its value.

I suppose that it depends on the situation, the judgement to be made, or action to be taken, and the intent, among other considerations.

The way it's stated here - that what god requires is right - is a bit iffy if god does not actually exist, and the human making use of the concept is just satisfying his own desires.

Having an issue with situational ethics seems to be a problem with unbelievers.

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

Isn't that amazing - Joseph Smith's god had the same view of ethics as he, Joseph, did:


I wonder if Joseph ever benefitted from that teaching - perhaps persuading others of its value.

I suppose that it depends on the situation, the judgement to be made, or action to be taken, and the intent, among other considerations.

The way it's stated here - that what god requires is right - is a bit iffy if god does not actually exist, and the human making use of the concept is just satisfying his own desires.

Having an issue with situational ethics seems to be a problem with unbelievers.

Regards,
MG

Do you mean to say that believers do not have a problem with situational ethics? Or they only are OK with it if they think that god, or god's representative, is the one making the decisions?

I cannot speak for unbelievers, but for me, yes, I have a problem to the extent that I don't always feel I can trust the people making the judgement about what is right when it goes against my conscience. When people think that it's OK to outsource their conscience to "authorities" in their heads, or "leaders", religious or otherwise, then it may enable tragedies.

• "god says it's OK sometimes to kill, and I think that he's telling me to kill my children so that they will go to the celestial kingdom."
• "god says it's OK for me to lie about my wife."
• "god says we have to kill all of the Saracens and cast them out of the holy land"
• "allah says to destroy the Christians.
• "gott mit uns."

etc., etc., etc.

[malkie]

Almost forget:

I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President Heber J. Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home. … Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: ‘My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.’ Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, ‘But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.’

Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78, as quoted in https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng

Folks, do you believe that the Lord has never let the President of the Church lead the people astray - at least from the days of Marion G. Romney's childhood - and never will do so?

[Morley]

Having an issue with situational ethics seems to be a problem with unbelievers.

MG, I know you don't mean to, but I believe the Church teaches that it's wrong to criticize the Lord's anointed. Speaking in General Conference, leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints probably don't consider themselves to be among the unbelievers.


Elder David B. Haight, of The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, had this to say about situational ethics:

One reason for the decline in moral values is that the world has invented a new, constantly changing and undependable standard of moral conduct referred to as “situational ethics.” Now, individuals define good and evil as being adjustable according to each situation; this is in direct contrast to the proclaimed God-given absolute standard: “Thou shalt not!”—as in “Thou shalt not steal” (Ex. 20:15).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... or,20%3A15).


Elder Richard B. Wirthlin, of The Seventy, was also not a fan of situational ethics:

Situational Ethics

Many have referred to the current era as the information age. But it is ironic that, in an information-rich era, the biggest threat to our world’s societies, rich or poor, and to each of us personally is the absence of moral clarity and purpose. Take the United States, for example, where 96 percent say they believe there is a God, yet a full 79 percent also believe that “there are few moral absolutes—what is right or wrong [they believe] usually varies from situation to situation.”

Societies structured by situational ethics—the belief that all truths are relative—create a moral environment defined by undistinguished shades of gray.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... 0of%20gray.


Even Elder Neal A. Maxwell, of The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, told about how The Book of Mormon, a book you dearly love, condemns situational ethics.

When Nephi displayed sorrow over their behavior, Laman and Lemuel were “glad” that he was sorry (see 1 Ne. 17:19). Admonitions were bad enough, but to have them come from Nephi!

Easily riled and quick to complain, they could scarcely remember their last rescue long enough to meet their next difficulty. Instead, lacking gospel perspective, the situational cares of the day, like worry over a broken bow, of all things, dominated the things of eternity. Ours, too, is a day of every-man-for-himself situational ethics, as if the Ten Commandments came from a focus group!

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... us%20group!

[Morley]

ChatGPT, what do LDS leaders have to say about situational ethics? Please write a poem about it.


LDS leaders say that ethics should be clear,
A path that's steadfast, unwavering and sincere.
Not swayed by circumstances, not by the tide,
But rooted in truth, which always shall abide.

Situational ethics are not in their view,
For principles of right, they know to be true.
Regardless of situation, regardless of place,
These principles should guide us in life's race.

Honesty, kindness, obedience divine,
These are the things that should forever shine.
For though the winds of change may come and go,
The truth remains, and this they know.

So let us strive to live by what is right,
And seek to follow the path of light.
For in a world of darkness, a world of strife,
Ethics that endure, bring peace to our life.