Mormons ignoring Jesus as quoted in the gospel of Matthew

[MG 2.0]

Yeah, perhaps the Midge should've just kept those thoughts to himself. And to make matters worse, this speculation has at its heart stuff that is pure fiction based on feelings and peer pressure. Obviously the racism was a product of the racist past, but a god should know better and maybe communicate a little better to his supposed prophet, you know, to avoid such messy things.

Now our resident apologist is also making stuff up about how his god supposedly acts or chooses not to in order to justify the nonsense we all used to follow. He has no idea about such things, just like I have no idea what is going on inside the head of any fictional character from literature. I guess I could ask the author if the author were accessible.

Who authored god and can we find this person? MG needs a line.

This is the evil part of Mormonism. It breeds in the minds of its fanatics a warped moral compass. It breaks their conscience. Look at how MG and others defend the absurd, the venal, the horrific realities of their cult’s history.

Luckily, his apologetics succeed in doing two things:

1) Indicates that this cult is not and can in NO way be the one-true church of Jesus Christ TM.

2) Pushes people with decency OUT of the cult. To remain, one must break their moral compass, otherwise to follow one's working moral compass is to follow where it leads - out of the cult.

- Doc

Up is down and left is right with the critics.

2 Nephi 15

20 Wo unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Wo unto the wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight!
22 Wo unto the mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink;
23 Who justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore, as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, their root shall be rottenness, and their blossoms shall go up as dust; because they have cast away the law of the Lord of Hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

We’ve been discussing Situational Ethics. For clarification this is the situational ethics that church leaders have been preaching against:

Many have referred to the current era as the information age. But it is ironic that, in an information-rich era, the biggest threat to our world’s societies, rich or poor, and to each of us personally is the absence of moral clarity and purpose. Take the United States, for example, where 96 percent say they believe there is a God, yet a full 79 percent also believe that “there are few moral absolutes—what is right or wrong [they believe] usually varies from situation to situation.”
Societies structured by situational ethics—the belief that all truths are relative—create a moral environment defined by undistinguished shades of gray.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

Doc maintains that church members must break their moral compass. That isn’t just the opposite of what members are taught to do. We are to rely on our moral compass. Again, up is down and left is right with the critics.

An Imperative Need: A Consistent Moral Compass
We cannot cope with the confusions and the challenges of this world unless we use a clear and consistent moral compass that will unerringly take us through our own personal trials and the tugs and pulls of our own temptations—a compass that will chart our way to peace of mind, self-worth, and joy.
Four Absolute Truths
This moral compass is built around four absolute truths. The first absolute truth is that there is a loving Father in Heaven, and His Son, Jesus Christ, is our personal Savior—a more certain truth than any worldly fact. This concept is expressed with unmatched eloquence in 1 John: “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.” Nothing could provide a truer “north” for every person’s own moral compass.
The second absolute truth is that there is an adversary, Satan, the tempter, who would lead us away from God and His infinite peace.
Note that the Hebrew translation for devil is the “spoiler.” Satan is the spoiler because he would confound our moral compass and spoil our journey back to a loving Father in Heaven.
Satan, “the father of lies,” increasingly uses various devices, ancient and modern, to confuse us. He would convince us that joy is not where it is. And contrarily, he would have us believe that joy is where it is not. One of Satan’s most spiritually damaging lies which undermines our sense of self-worth and hope is that we cannot be forgiven of our sins.
The third absolute truth is that all of us choose our own course, endowed by agency. This truth is clearly expressed in the Book of Mormon: “Wherefore, men are free … free to choose liberty and eternal life, … or to choose captivity and death, … for [the devil] seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.”
Yes, who we are is the sum of all the choices we make. We should always remember that our choices do not begin with the act, but in the mind with the idea. As a poet stated, “Sow a thought, and you reap an act; sow an act, and you reap a habit; sow a habit, and you reap a character; sow a character, and you reap a destiny.”
Given our agency, we are therefore individually responsible for our ideas, acts, habits, character, and, yes, even our destiny.
The fourth absolute truth is that the temptations of the devil can always be overcome by renewed faith in God and by repentance. Yes, when we stray from that narrow and straight way, marked by our moral compass, our footing can be restored on the road that surely leads to salvation and eternal life.
When Christ went to the Garden of Gethsemane, clearly knowing of His impending Crucifixion, He prayed to His Father for His Apostles as well as for each of us. In that prayer, He commands us to avoid evil, but in His infinite compassion He also asks the Father to “keep [us] from the evil.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... s?lang=eng

You have a warped view of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Lord’s Church.

Sadly, nothing will change that.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Yes, I’m the one with a warped view in that I would turn a man over to law enforcement for damned a kid, while your cult protected and protects countless men who screwed kids. Up and down and left and right, indeed. Moron.

- Doc

[Marcus]

Those 4 “absolute truths” are anything but. The first two are nothing more than beliefs in the supernatural, and have no relationship to “truth.” the last two are beliefs that have some elements of behavioral accuracy, but are woefully incomplete as absolute truths the way the LDS church expresses them.

[Gadianton]

Those 4 “absolute truths” are anything but. The first two are nothing more than beliefs in the supernatural, and have no relationship to “truth.” the last two are beliefs that have some elements of behavioral accuracy, but are woefully incomplete as absolute truths the way the LDS church expresses them.

Thank you. Indeed, this is standard apostolic bait and switch. Here are 4 things that have no absolute implications for anything that apostles are advertising as bold foundational truths exclusive to Mormons in order to sound like they've got something rather than nothing.

Ron Lafferty could hold fast to all four of these and explain all of his actions within these parameters.

[MG 2.0]

Those 4 “absolute truths” are anything but. The first two are nothing more than beliefs in the supernatural, and have no relationship to “truth.” the last two are beliefs that have some elements of behavioral accuracy, but are woefully incomplete as absolute truths the way the LDS church expresses them.

Thank you. Indeed, this is standard apostolic bait and switch. Here are 4 things that have no absolute implications for anything that apostles are advertising as bold foundational truths exclusive to Mormons in order to sound like they've got something rather than nothing.

I think that these foundational truths are not just for members of the LDS church.

In addition they don’t have to either be known or accepted to be true in order for them to actually be true. Of course, to the nonbeliever or to those that are not aware of these truths it’s as if these truths didn’t exist. They have to be known and accepted in order to find meaning and applicability.

There are scientific truths, for example that are true but unknown to the masses. But to those that understand these truths they have meaning and applicability.

Anyway, you both don’t have to accept these truths as being true. So don’t fret.

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

Right, I don't have to accept them as true. I also don't have to accept that anyone who accepts them as true will behave substantially differently because they believe these things.

[dastardly stem]

Yep Gad’s correct as usual, as I see it. Those four teachings don’t factor in the least on one’s moral compass. And they’re empty in falsifiable claims. Anyone can say that means true but I don’t. If they’re is any reason to think anyone of them is true I’d love to see the reasoning someone can give to demonstrate them

[honorentheos]

Right, I don't have to accept them as true. I also don't have to accept that anyone who accepts them as true will behave substantially differently because they believe these things.

Someone wisely once asked a group to describe what it felt like to be wrong. After receiving a number of answers covering the spectrum of negative emotions, they pointed out that those didn't describe how it felt to be wrong but instead how it felt to find out you were wrong. Up to that point, being wrong feels the same as being right.

MG doesn't know what ethics means. He can't even get to a place where he could experience what it is like to realize he is wrong because he refuses to accept the possibility of there not being a creator god. And by that refusal he can't examine if that would change anything about his understanding of moral judgement or not. In all of our discussions on the subject that inevitably becomes the entirety of the discussion. He feels like he's got it right...because he can't experience being shown to be wrong. He experiences it all as an attack against God instead, reaffirming to him the rightness of his position.

It's its own form of hell but if a person can't experience the alternative, who can convince someone it's not heaven?

[Gadianton]

Someone wisely once asked a group to describe what it felt like to be wrong. After receiving a number of answers covering the spectrum of negative emotions, they pointed out that those didn't describe how it felt to be wrong but instead how it felt to find out you were wrong. Up to that point, being wrong feels the same as being right.

I'll have to remember that one. If your beliefs are either formally unfalsifiable or falsification is of no material consequence -- like believing a Hebrew word means something that it doesn't vs. believing taking Fentanyl is perfectly safe -- then one can be happily wrong their entire life.

MG doesn't know what ethics means. He can't even get to a place where he could experience what it is like to realize he is wrong because he refuses to accept the possibility of there not being a creator god.

It's not just refusing to accept the possibility of a creator God, but coming to terms with the hard reality that the vast majority of people who have and who do believe in a creator God also believe MG will spend eternity in hell.

Here's a serious question for MG. MG was born in the Church, has spent his whole life in the Church, and hasn't indicated he's seriously pursued any ideas outside of SLC's safety. What makes MG think that had he been born in 1800s in a mainstream church in a geographical area where most people were members of that church, that he'd give Mormonism 5 serious minutes of his time and consideration?

[Morley]

I think that these foundational truths are not just for members of the LDS church.

Ha! So these are the purported four absolute truths regarding a Mormon moral compass.
1. There's an avatar of good.
2. There's an avatar of evil.
3. We have agency, so we're responsible for which avatar we follow.
4. But most of all, we need both a) faith, which is the belief that both avatars exist, and b) the knowledge that there's repentance (meaning that you can always switch avatars toward the good one--so no worries!).

Though I hate to oppugn the wisdom of such a bedrock principle as that you have to believe in Satan to be a good person--I can't help but be struck by what's missing. There's no Zoroastrian "Good thoughts, good speech, good deeds." No New Testament "Do unto others…." No Martin Buber's "I-Thou." No Islam's prayer, fasting, alms, and pilgrimage.

Oh well, as long as I believe in a creator god and his co-deity, the devil whom God allows to screw with us, I'm okay. My moral compass is intact.