Jenn Kamp Files Lawsuit Against John Dehlin

[Kishkumen]

Is any of this really worth spending time on? Is DCP worth spending energy on?

Maybe none of these folks is healthy.

Maybe we are not.

I dunno!

[drumdude]

Is any of this really worth spending time on? Is DCP worth spending energy on?

Maybe none of these folks is healthy.

Maybe we are not.

I dunno!

That's why I'm not getting overly worked up about it like I did last time with Rosebud.

Same ish, different day.

[Kishkumen]

I think the truth will come out. I am not too fussed about it.

[consiglieri]

So yeah, Consig, why do you textually fellate a walking ego in a skinsuit? How are you falling for this?

I’m not falling for anything.

I’m sticking up for a friend who’s being falsely accused.

If you can’t understand that, I’m not the one to explain it to you.

I would stick up for you if you were the one being unjustly maligned.

Or anyone else on this board.

It’s what I do.

[DrStakhanovite]

Once the viewer gets past any notion of altruism, and realizes Mormon Stories is a product, then we’d at least like the product not to be produced by clowns. Make it professional, man. Keep it professional, man.

If they would drop the whole shtick about building some kind of ideal community predicated on leaving a religion, I think the content would drastically improve.

Actually you can in certain circumstances and I think Consigs comments fit within the Rule cited hereinbelow...

Yeah, but would it be a good idea? Probably not.

However, Consig is also a journalist and could very well be acting in that capacity. Anyway, Jenn Kamp is a train wreck. She obviously over uses the emotion card to get her way and Dehlin had every right to let her go, especially after she recorded him. Who does that and still expects to have a job afterward? Even so, I don't particularly like John Dehlin's show as I already know the issues he discusses and I don't much care for the run of the mill exit story any more.

Look, the issue isn’t the merit of Jenn Kamp’s case, it is the reaction to it is at issue. Look at how you are describing her: “train wreck” and “over uses the emotion card”. This is a humdrum HR dispute for a non-profit, probably thousands of these kinds of cases get adjudicated every year, but we are talking about it like Jenn is some scandalous and effusive airhead from the next trailerpark over getting booted out of her Pentecostal church because she had it out with the Pastor.

Is taunting a female plaintiff with counter-defamation lawsuits and capping it off with “Winter is Coming”, a slogan from a series with heavy motifs of sexual violence, a form of journalism in Ex-Mo communities?

Cause all of the above is what is transpiring in this thread. Do you think if Louis Midgley wrote any of that about Gina Colvin we wouldn’t be having a field day with that?

Now if Consig was just some anonymous shitposter like me with absolutely no standing in the Ex-Mo world, I wouldn’t be saying any of this, but because he isn’t some anonymous shitposter and actually has a meaningful standing in the Ex-Mo world, he needs to change up his game.

Let's just pretend that when I said "current case", I was referring to the one that Jenn Kamp filed on 17 January 2023. I'm quite happy to stand by my comments regarding Consig's public behaviour in this time period.

You are right, barely five months have passed, none of it matters now!

Going forward there very well could be problems, or there might not be? When does he become rich enough to retire and disappear?

Before John Dehlin started his cult of personality, he just had an M.B.A and a very well paying gig at a large tech company. He gave up that lucrative career to become an Ex-Mormon Guru to help shepherd disaffected Saints out of their religious community. Money is not the man’s motive, but being the center of attention most certainly is, so there is no way he is ever going to just melt away into obscurity to live a peaceful life with his wife to watch his grandchildren play in the backyard.

I'm not sure I'm defending John Dehlin to that extent.

I don’t take you to be defending him. I don’t think there is anything wrong with liking or disliking his content or supporting his organization. Jenn Kamp’s lawsuit could be totally without merit even if she wins the judgment.

If Jenn Kamp is delusional and completely outrageous, you should take a look at her employer because that dude is a damn circus unto himself and there is probably a reason why she ended up working for him.

I will update my beliefs as more and more data becomes available.

Wildly off topic but…Bayesian updating is a really poor fit for epistemology.

Is any of this really worth spending time on? Is DCP worth spending energy on?

I think it does matter. One day John is going to cross a line (if he already hasn’t) and the evidence for it will go beyond any sort of plausible deniability. What will follow will be a reckoning where all his “friends” are going to have to publicly disavow the guy and we are going to be reading a bunch of navel gazing comments of “I can’t believe this happened” and “I thought I knew the guy”.

Usually I’d be content with having a five course meal of savory “I told you so” and then taking a long, slow, and smug victory lap around the joint. The dilly in the sweets however, is that people like Consig, who make meaningful content on their own, are going to get damaged by it.

To paraphrase you, it really isn’t necessary to be a part of some ex-mo community to make interesting content about Mormonism.

[DrStakhanovite]

It’s what I do.

You should pick your friends better or you are going to end up like jpatterson.

[Moksha]

You should pick your friends better or you are going to end up like jpatterson.

I would rather have Consiglieri do what feels right to him.

[Kishkumen]

I think it does matter. One day John is going to cross a line (if he already hasn’t) and the evidence for it will go beyond any sort of plausible deniability. What will follow will be a reckoning where all his “friends” are going to have to publicly disavow the guy and we are going to be reading a bunch of navel gazing comments of “I can’t believe this happened” and “I thought I knew the guy”.

Usually I’d be content with having a five course meal of savory “I told you so” and then taking a long, slow, and smug victory lap around the joint. The dilly in the sweets however, is that people like Consig, who make meaningful content on their own, are going to get damaged by it.

To paraphrase you, it really isn’t necessary to be a part of some ex-mo community to make interesting content about Mormonism.

I would be lying if I failed to admit that the possibility of this blowing up in people’s faces makes me somewhat nervous.

[dastardly stem]

Yes, DrStakhanovite hits most of the main points I'd make note of here. I'm not sure I care much or am concerned about Consiglieri being friends with Dehlin. I don't get the defenses sure...but I'm also aware of the cast of loony people that I call friends. I could not get excited about all the seeming joy some were having over trying to demean the ladies who dared offer complaints about John. That was all plain and sad distraction to me. Like DrStak mentioned Jenn Kamp is hardly the issue here. I gave her about 20 minutes of my time and can't even really recall the extent of her complaints. All it took for me was to hear the silly things that John did (which I've noted in previous posts in this thread) I'm not sure her case is what is interesting in any of this. For one, you'd think John would learn something from the fiascos that have hit him already. Apparently not. For another if Jenn Kamp is as crazy and outlandish as Consig is trying to paint her, that only speaks more poorly of John, if you ask me. Whose he trying to take advantage of here?

DrStak:

He “annually” has to repost blog articles about being “smeared” that actually includes a photo of him as his wife. He routinely shares this kinda stuff on the very same account he tags family members in, like when he drops in on his daughter at her workplace to take a selfie.

Is this how a person with a healthy sense of boundaries behaves? Does it make you confident that no matter how the Jenn Kamp issue is legally resolved, there won’t be any more problems going forward? Do you think a guy with a PhD in Psychology might pause for a bit of reflection and say to himself, “No John, this isn’t healthy”?

That's right. That's why I brought this up. Of course we're just commenting on and working through ideas here as they pertain to Mormonism. John's publishing what I'd suggest is crap and he has a following. it seems worth making note of. And granted, many here are friends with or feel a debt to John and really enjoy his show. That's fine. I have no real comment there. I've said it before, I simply don't think John is a responsible player here. He doesn't act in good faith and that's about it. let him live. Let him keep on moving. hopefully he learns his lesson after showing all signs of not wanting to listen to another.

[master_dc]

Like DrStak mentioned Jenn Kamp is hardly the issue here. I gave her about 20 minutes of my time and can't even really recall the extent of her complaints. All it took for me was to hear the silly things that John did (which I've noted in previous posts in this thread) I'm not sure her case is what is interesting in any of this. For one, you'd think John would learn something from the fiascos that have hit him already. Apparently not. For another if Jenn Kamp is as crazy and outlandish as Consig is trying to paint her, that only speaks more poorly of John, if you ask me. Whose he trying to take advantage of here?

This is where my head is at. It is an almost annual reminder of why Open Stories Foundation/Mormon Stories has difficulty maintaining growth. It is a topic and response to pain/trauma, and it takes a certain personality type to pursue it and monetize it, and I don't mean that in a purely negative way. Social media is an interesting beast, especially podcasts and vlogs. Growing up before social media, we all probably new people who thought they were or would become stars (most were delusional about it). Now, those people have a means to try and become one from the comfort of their homes, anywhere in the world.

It is pretty obvious that Jenn Kamp (she has expressly stated) wants to become the female.voice of empathetic woman's issues in the Mormon/exMormon communities. She wants the money and recognition. JD, consciously or sub-consciously, might start treating subordinates, like Jenn Kamp, differently as their position in his space grows.

In the end, I don't think Jenn Kamp is any crazier than the rest of us, just her bit of crazy is public facing, similar to mine. I too can get emotional and shed tears listening to others. She has aspirations and was using Open Stories Foundation as the means to expedite her path towards her goals, and it wasn't a bad move, in the beginning. As her ego grew, it opened the door to clash with the ego of her boss. Her story of building community and trying to push Open Stories Foundation to the next frontier is shockingly similar to another former employee.

JD, if you are reading this, hire back office staff that have little interest in becoming you, hire them because they are or will be good at running the behind the scenes show. Stay away from people passionate about the work you do.