We Do Not Support John Dehlin

[Marcus]

I think very little of a list including wannabe celebrities, celebrity activists, life coaches, and what have you claiming that John is unsafe. I would love to see the evidence that KK and K Money felt unsafe around John Dehlin. But that’s the beautiful thing about saying you “feel” unsafe, it doesn’t require evidence or anything more than a vague emotional claim.

no argument there.

Based on what I’ve seen, I would be afraid to be around Jenn Kamp, as well.

At least I know I thank God every night before I go to sleep I was never alone with her.

i agree, just vague emotional claims, with no evidence.

[Kishkumen]

No, I think the evidence that Jenn Kamp was careless with her accusations is pretty abundant. I listened to the recording. I wouldn’t want to work with her. So many things she said do not pass the smell test. Caution is wise.

[Marcus]

No, I think the evidence that Jenn Kamp was careless with her accusations is pretty abundant. I listened to the recording. I wouldn’t want to work with her. So many things she said do not pass the smell test. Caution is wise.

that's a valid argument. after everything i've read, seeing Dehlin repeatedly insist that he has, "To date (February 2023), ...never harassed, assaulted, or abused a co-worker. Ever" gives me the same sense of abundant carelessness. Dehlin's words are clearly dishonest and pass no 'smell test.' And i agree, 'caution is wise.'

[Kishkumen]

that's a valid argument. after everything i've read, seeing Dehlin repeatedly insist that he has, "To date (February 2023), ...never harassed, assaulted, or abused a co-worker. Ever" gives me the same sense of abundant carelessness. Dehlin's words are clearly dishonest and pass no 'smell test.' And i agree, 'caution is wise.'

Fair enough! Caution is wise. I do not disagree that John Dehlin screwed up in his relationship with Rosebud which was inappropriate full stop. I think John Dehlin does have a credibility issue for that reason. I arrived at that position by following the evidence, not by reading statements by nineteen people, most of whom offered no evidence. Of course, it’s not really an evidence thing. It is a moral declaration that John Dehlin is a bad person and should not have any platform that receives attention.

But I think this may make many women think twice about working with John Dehlin. That may be for the best, I suppose, although apparently some have not had these kinds of problems with him. Whatever these problems may be . . . like not “feeling safe.”

[Canadiandude2]

I know I don’t support John Dehlin. I agree that upon reading more accounts of the controversy, the less inclined I am to double down in his defence. When you’re in a position of power in a workplace that isn’t a family business, you shouldn’t engage in romantic nor sexual affairs with someone who is in a less powerful position than yourself. I keep getting lost while trying to piece together what happened but something seems off about the man. He can’t even take criticism from Dr. Benjamin Park.

I also don’t support Kate Kelly. I find it harmful in fact that Kate Kelly was quite willing to join with Kwaku and Cardon on their show given the violent rhetoric, misogyny, 2slgbtq+ -phobia, and more that these dudes regularly promote. Kate Kelly regularly engages in Call-outs but she also has a thin skin for critique.

I’m not a legal expert. I didn’t rule in Rosebuds’ case and even after weeks of reading, I remain confused and in the dark on what exactly happened, by who, and why.

Truthfully I think most American Mo & Exmo influencers are kinda weird. I feel the same way about many of the people here in fact.

Few members and even fewer nonmembers care about Dr. Peterson. That’s why I eventually stopped caring what he writes about. Edit: stopped reading his blog. I get it. Not fully but I get it. The church hurt all of us, and many here were highly invested promoters and ‘researchers’ in the same apologetics now critiqued here.

They’re lying liars who lie and I was a lil monster for em, and Peter Priesthood. I’m arguably also one of the most angry and maladjusted of all my exmo/post-Mo contacts.

I think the best experts right now in Mormon studies tend to be scholars like Park, Shipps, and Petrey. These scholars tend to avoid making exaggerated claims and don’t depend upon a direct revenue stream between themselves and Mormons/‘Prog’ Mormons/exmormons/post Mormons.

I have in fact actively redirected my fellows to actual scholars who create peer-reviewed & scholarly work.

(And no Daniel Peterson, until you give up your main emphasis upon apologetics- you don’t count)

[mormonstories]

This is John. My honest reactions to this letter (updated with a few clarifications and feedback from Doc):

Of the 19 women who signed this document…

The following 6 I have no recollection of ever meeting and do not recognize their names in any way. Like at all. If I’ve ever been accused of mistreating them (or even meeting them) I’d love to see the evidence.
- Dr. Amber Choruby Whiteley
- Marisa McPeck-Stringham
- April Carlson
- Jaynee Talbot
- Leanne Sawyer
- Raina Kimball

Down to 13.

The following 2 I barely recognize the names, and don’t recall any interactions with them. They could have been on the podcast, but I have no recollection of It. Also, if I’ve ever mistreated them I’d love to see the credible evidence.
- Aimee Evans Hickman
- Emily Clyde Curtis

Down to 11.

The following 6 appeared on the podcast once or at most a handful of times early in the Mormon Stories days, in many cases over Skype or in public settings..or maybe we were super distant Internet friends at some point. But I am aware of zero allegations of harassment or abuse by me from these people and I would reject any accusations as such without evidence (other than I once made a dumb joke about a dress Kate was wearing at a public event that my family was attending and apologized as soon as I was corrected). If there’s credible evidence of abuse or harassment please produce it. I know of none.
- Kate Kelly
- Joanna Smith (applied for Amy Grubbs’ position but wasn’t hired)
- Chelsi Barnard Archibald
- Tresa Brown Edmunds
- Hannah Wheelwright
- Mica McGriggs
I could also name 1,000+ women who I’ve worked with more than these women who would eagerly vouch for me.

Down to 5 who actually worked for the Open Stories Foundation in some capacity.

- Kristy Money was let go as an Open Stories Foundation podcaster primarily because she was widely viewed as an ineffective podcaster and her podcast was literally losing money. Also because she teamed with Kate to try to publicly allege that we underpaid her as a podcaster when in reality she eagerly agreed to the same deal that every podcaster in those early years including DanW, GinaC, and NatashaH agreed to (to podcast for free until payment could be justified, in exchange for a large platform). Then she and Kate claimed that the Open Stories Foundation took advantage of women Podcasters. This was when Kate and I parted ways. Natasha confirms this I also never directly worked with Kristy. She worked from Georgia and we did not interact. Also no allegations of abuse or harassment. Just disgruntled after she was let go by the board, and after she was called out for complaining about a deal she willingly and eagerly agreed to.

- Amy Grubbs was let go by the Open Stories Foundation Board after she literally tried to forcibly oust me as CEO without a willingness to take responsibility for fundraising (the most crucial aspect of non-profit management). We were also hemorrhaging financially by the end of her time there. Also no allegations of abuse or harassment. Just disgruntled after she was let go by the board. Bet we didn’t get along by the end...that's 100% true. Also, check out our financials after Amy left.

- Sharon Price was Amy’s bestie and worked directly with Amy to help Amy with events. Sharon reported directly to Amy and we did not meaningfully interact In any way. Also no allegations of harassment or abuse. Sharon quit when she knew Amy’s days were numbered.

- Jenn Kamp - Evidence forthcoming.

That leaves one:

- Rosebud. This relationship was a huge lapse of horrid judgement on my part and is the single biggest mistake of my life. Bosses should never become romantically involved with people under them in the power structure - full stop - and married people should never betray the trust of their partners and family.

See link below to an episode that lays out the full story.
https://radiofreemormon.org/2021/04/mor ... in-flames/

That’s my brief accounting for the 19. 5 of the 19 actually worked for the Open Stories Foundation. One harassment allegation that you can evaluate for yourself.

[Kishkumen]

You see, this is the problem that I have with these kinds of documents. No credibility.

I still say John was wrong to engage in some kind of romantic relationship with Rosebud.

And then, I have a problem with every other claim I have heard after that, including Kristy Money and Jenn Kamp.

Consider the thought process that gets these 19 people to put their names to this document. I just don’t quite understand how this kind of cluster-f happens.

Most of it seems to be built on the unstable foundation of Rosebud’s vendetta.

And yes, Canadiandude2, many of us are weird.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

This is John.

…

- Rosebud’s false claims of harassment have been investigated on three separate occasions. All three times no harassment was found, and Rosebud was determined to be the aggressor. Twice Rosebud withdrew her claims before they could be ruled upon.

I welcome credible evidence that refutes this account, and reserve the right to respond to the evidence once provided. If I’m mistaken I will own it.

My count is 0 out of 19 credible harassment allegations.

Not really 0 out of 19.

2) Rosebud made multiple personal promises to me from the very start and throughout to “go away” if our relationship ever got to the point where it was hurting me or the Open Stories Foundation. This was a personal agreement we had made, which she agreed to prior to joining the board or coming on as an employee. I was only asking her to keep her promise. Frankly, I was stunned when she refused. I honestly thought I could trust her. But that was a personal plea.

My man. You just copped to a quid pro quo arrangement. You need to post some documentation that exonerates you contextually. Not a good look.

- Doc

Wow. All I am getting, repeatedly, from MS's posts is that he is still shocked that there were consequences to his bad behavior that he couldn't avoid because he couldn't exert control over another person.

[Kishkumen]

Yeah, not zero. NOT ZERO.

And that is the problem. He insists on zero, but it is not really zero.

It is unfortunate, and yet the rest of the pile on in this document is still bonkers.

[Canadiandude2]

This is John.

…

- Rosebud’s false claims of harassment have been investigated on three separate occasions. All three times no harassment was found, and Rosebud was determined to be the aggressor. Twice Rosebud withdrew her claims before they could be ruled upon.

I welcome credible evidence that refutes this account, and reserve the right to respond to the evidence once provided. If I’m mistaken I will own it.

My count is 0 out of 19 credible harassment allegations.

Not really 0 out of 19.

My man. You just copped to a quid pro quo arrangement. You need to post some documentation that exonerates you contextually. Not a good look.

- Doc

Wow. All I am getting, repeatedly, from MS's posts is that he is still shocked that there were consequences to his bad behavior that he couldn't avoid because he couldn't exert control over another person.

Aye. And in my view: One is enough. He keeps deliberately misconstruing the data which makes the attempt at humility somewhat suspect.

I ask myself “if this had occurred in the military would I desire that individual to still keep their rank & job?”

No. No, I would not.

Edit: I don’t have to choose between Kate Kelly, Rosebud, or Mormon Stories.

Barring 2nd winter weather, I can walk, chew gum, and read (actual) Mormon Studies scholarship at the same time.