The stupidity of MG here is overwhelming. The church was not trying to maximize profits here. This has nothing to do with gain or loss. They were trying to hide who owned the money from public view, especially from members themselves so members would not realize how much filthy lucre its great and spacious leadership actually controlled.
This isn't about money, this is about control. Looks like it is working for rubes like MG.
Notice dopey MG tries to shift blame for his post to Jesus Christ himself! You can’t make this up.
Also, Dr. Steuss. That’ll never happen. MG only claims to read, but he doesn’t read. This is a well-established fact. He can handle little exchanges, but anything that actually requires more than a paragraph isn’t happening. How many times has he posted sources that contradict the point he believed he was making, because he never actually read his sources? Two decades of this bozo shilling for his corporate overlords, and if there’s one thing you can take to the bank is that MG doesn’t read - he skims, at best, and he certainly doesn’t damned read source material.
- Doc
Jesus taught about the wheat and the chaff. I’m simply making application to what might be happening in today’s world with those that stay in the church vs. leave.
Think what you will in regards to how much or how thoroughly I’ve read. I can’t stop you from pointing accusing fingers.
Kishkumen, here is at least one person that puts nefarious intent at the feet of the First Presidency.
Moore, you’re making a real stretch in claiming nefarious intent on the part of the Brethren. It will, at some point in time, come back to bite you in the butt.
Nefarious: "flagrantly wicked or impious."
I dunno. I think that is a stretch, but maybe you are right. I just think the Brethren are askew on their priorities because these days Mammon and God are so closely identified. Success in business is evidence of righteousness, etc. Do not question the moneyed is the gospel of the day. It is hard to avoid that mindset entirely, and I think that the leaders of the LDS Church are in line with the culture in failing to avoid the lure of worldly success, even if it is "sacralized" by being kept in the coffers of the Church's investment portfolio.
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
When it comes to member behavior, the ask is to avoid the very appearance of evil.
When caught breaking the law, the church’s own standard becomes “were they super nefarious?”
Indeed. When you hold a sacred trust like the claim that you are speaking for God in receiving tithes, you had better be above reproach in every way.
The LDS Church is not.
I am not, in saying that, calling it "nefarious."
MG 2.0 just wants to flip the standard for his and the Church's convenience.
"The Church is not nefarious as you claim it to be (when you question it in any way and to any degree), therefore the Church is above reproach."
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
I didn’t see any evidence of nefarious intent on the part of the church leaders or Ensign Peak. It seems as though the financial advisors were trying to maximize profits within what they saw as the parameters of the law/code. As soon as the SEC brought the concerns that they had to the Ensign Peak folks they changed their investment and accounting practices immediately.
No harm, no foul.
You’re making a lot of hay where there is none to be made.
As much as you would like to escalate it.
You folks are talking as though you know the WHOLE backstory. You don’t.
The SEC's findings of fact show a clear picture of an intentional effort to obfuscate and conceal assets via inappropriate means.
OK. I’ve read it. Underlying it all seems to be this:
The Church was concerned that disclosure of the assets in the name of Ensign Peak, a known Church affiliate, would lead to negative consequences in light of the size of the Church’s portfolio. Ensign Peak did not have the authority to implement this approach without the approval of the Church’s First Presidency.
Once the ball was rolling it was difficult to stop. And what needs to be determined is whether or not those negative consequences had their basis in some kind of nefarious scheme concocted by church leadership.
My contention is that the motivations were benign and in order with the church’s concern for membership to see the tithe as a covenantal relationship between them and the Lord. Having the super large portfolio readily transparent and ‘out front’ might discourage some members from seeing the law of tithing as being necessary.
Once the ball was rolling it was difficult to stop.
Stopping a ball from rolling is one thing.
Continuing to create new balls is another.
ETA: Incidentally, whether the motivations were benign or not has no bearing on the multiple instances of blatant dishonesty outlined within the order.
Last edited by Doctor Steuss on Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
"I have learned with what evils tyranny infects a state. For it frustrates all the virtues, robs freedom of its lofty mood, and opens a school of fawning and terror, inasmuch as it leaves matters not to the wisdom of the laws, but to the angry whim of those who are in authority.”
To prevent disclosure of the securities portfolio managed by Ensign Peak, the Church approved Ensign Peak’s plan of using other entities, instead of Ensign Peak, to file Forms 13F. The Church was concerned that disclosure of the assets in the name of Ensign Peak, a known Church affiliate, would lead to negative consequences in light of the size of the Church’s portfolio. Ensign Peak did not have the authority to implement this approach without the approval of the Church’s First Presidency.
Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism. Top to bottom. Prophet to shilling idiot.
