Making Covenants

[MG 2.0]

You are not capable of looking at religion any other way than through the assumption the LDS creator god exists.

Been there, done that.

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

My impression of MGs position would be better stated as,

MG: Religion then is something that I look at with a closed mind, knowing that a loving God exists.

Not quite sure what your meaning is behind “religion is something I look at with a closed mind.” Care to elaborate? As it is, if I’m not misunderstanding you, you’ve got it wrong. But I’d like you to flesh this out a bit if you would.

I’m looking at what I think might be an oversimplification in that statement.

MG: Knowing God's omnipotent wisdom, I do not need to question when God does not intervene in the world as He knows best what we are ready to receive.

Sure, I can question it. I would ask you, “For what purpose?” and “What would I hope to accomplish by challenging God?”

Regards,
MG

Not quite sure what your meaning is behind “religion is something I look at with a closed mind.” Care to elaborate? As it is, if I’m not misunderstanding you, you’ve got it wrong. But I’d like you to flesh this out a bit if you would.

You are not capable of looking at religion any other way than through the assumption the LDS creator god exists. This establishes a closed framework within which you operate under an illusion of open eyed curiosity. But that supposed curiosity only functions to figure out how something may fit within your closed framework.

Sure, I can question it. I would ask you, “For what purpose?” and “What would I hope to accomplish by challenging God?”

So...you can't question the basic assumption about the existence of God in order to investigate how the world would look differently if your assumptions are put aside. Check.

You are not capable of looking at religion any other way than through the assumption the LDS creator god exists.

Been there, done that.

Regards,
MG

Indeed you have. Anyway, full quotes for context.

[MG 2.0]

Not quite sure what your meaning is behind “religion is something I look at with a closed mind.” Care to elaborate? As it is, if I’m not misunderstanding you, you’ve got it wrong. But I’d like you to flesh this out a bit if you would.

I’m looking at what I think might be an oversimplification in that statement.



Sure, I can question it. I would ask you, “For what purpose?” and “What would I hope to accomplish by challenging God?”

Regards,
MG

You are not capable of looking at religion any other way than through the assumption the LDS creator god exists. This establishes a closed framework within which you operate under an illusion of open eyed curiosity. But that supposed curiosity only functions to figure out how something may fit within your closed framework.


So...you can't question the basic assumption about the existence of God in order to investigate how the world would look differently if your assumptions are put aside. Check.

Been there, done that.

Regards,
MG

Indeed you have. Anyway, full quotes for context.

And I am in favor of “full context” as you know.

Good day.

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

And I am in favor of “full context” as you know.

Good day.

Regards,
MG

By "full context", do we agree you mean personal subjective beliefs and inductive reasoning?

[MG 2.0]

And I am in favor of “full context” as you know.

Good day.

Regards,
MG

By "full context", do we agree you mean personal subjective beliefs and inductive reasoning?

honor, I have no interest in going down this path with you. I was simply responding to your comment:

You are not capable of looking at religion any other way than through the assumption the LDS creator god exists.

I responded that I have been there, done that.

I understand that you, as a nonbeliever, have a certain position to maintain in order to remain in a state of equilibrium. That demands a constant defense and effort to dismantle religious belief.

I want no part of the path you have chosen.

If you look at my thread, “Secular Folks Should Worry”, you will see why I am rather doubtful/dubious in regards to the future that secularism and religious non belief holds for society and the world at large.

And here you are, supporting a worldview that can ultimately lead to dissolution of all that has contributed to the overall health and success of the modern world. Your world, as shown in the study I referred to on the other thread, leads to isolation and self absorption/selfishness.

Let alone, the possibility of a secular tyrant/organization of some stripe ultimately taking control and/or having undue influence over the masses.

I should think that this is something you ought to have some concern with.

Anyway, that’s the way I see it. YMMV.

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

honor, I have no interest in going down this path with you.

I want no part of the path you have chosen.

My impression of MGs position would be better stated as,

Religion then is something that I look at with a closed mind, knowing that a loving God exists. Knowing God's omnipotent wisdom, I do not need to question when God does not intervene in the world as He knows best what we are ready to receive.

So I nailed it. Thanks for confirming.

[honorentheos]

I should think that this is something you ought to have some concern with.

We will come back to what I think. But first I hope you took a moment to go over the results of the study you mentioned and realized that kids in the "Other Religion" category which includes Mormons actually performed lower than non-religious respondents. So...if you care that much are you leaving the Mormon church to become an Evangelical? I mean, you were pretty condescending there over how important it was someone take the study and frame their worldview around it.

YMMV.

Regards,
MG

You're right, it does. You know why? Because I'm not bringing the worldview presumptions you assert. It's procedural. It begins with acknowledging the role of bias and being willing to look more closely.

Despite what you think leaving the Church wasn't easy. I hoped it would have been what it claimed to be. But it turned out the facts didn't support that belief I had. It sucked making the decisions involved in leaving, it wasn't the outcome I assumed was going to be the results. But that is where unbiased examination of the facts led so here we are. You know what? I feel kinda bad for you, too. You can't see the fraud the Church perpetrated for what it is. You can't act with actual moral agency when facing moral dilemmas involving the teachings, history, or actions of the LDS church. You have it rough and the world is perpetually attacking your worldview because it's in conflict with reality.

Pray for yourself, son. You're the one who needs it.

[MG 2.0]

Pray for yourself, son. You're the one who needs it.

Wow.

As I mentioned over on another thread, you have nothing to offer as a replacement for faith. Your philosophical compunctions may work for a while, but they don’t hold any hope for stability/dependability beyond the length of your own nose.

It may work for you, but it cannot stand the test of time over the long haul. It’s destined to fail.

But to each his/her own.

I wish you well.

Regards,
MG

[honorentheos]

As I mentioned over on another thread, you have nothing to offer as a replacement for faith. Your philosophical compunctions may work for a while, but they don’t hold any hope for stability/dependability beyond the length of your own nose.

Let's see. Faith gets you to post topics on books you haven't read, studies you didn't investigate, and positions any decent person can see are morally bankrupt. Not relying on it seems to be working out better than that at a minimum.

I wish you well.

Speaking of noses.

[MG 2.0]

Faith gets you to post topics on books you haven't read, studies you didn't investigate, and positions any decent person can see are morally bankrupt.

Again, wow. I’m not going to even count this as worthy of a reply.

Best wishes, honor, in the life you have chosen. I do hope it’s working and will continue to work for you for the remainder of your life.

Happiness is the goal we all seek for. Good luck in your personal quest.

I mean that.

Regards,
MG