The Expose on LDS Apologists & The Invention And Coverup Of Richard Nygren

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

It should be noted that Robert Boylan, on his @Smormon Twitter account, “begged” for money 19 times and has a “begging for money” post pinned at the top of his account. Has any of the commenters on SeN who excoriate BR, Consig, or JD for “begging” taken Robert Boylan to task for “begging”?

Part of the problem people have with Mopologists and their back slapping buddies is the double standard they apply to others. They’re the ones that call themselves Saints. They’re the ones that claim to strive for a higher standard, a code of conduct of sorts. When they act like assholes instead of just doing their own thing without attacking others like Saints ought to act, even if they’re attacked, they’re going to catch some serious crap.

For example, on Boylan’s snoozefest of a blog, I don’t see anyone giving two craps about his deep dives into theology. Great. Good for him. But when he ‘picks up his musket’ and marinates in the Devil’s contention, he’s naturally going to get return fire. Perhaps he needs to rethink his approach to his faith and the faith of others.

- Doc

[drumdude]

His blog is bizarre. The posts have no introduction or context. It’s just random paragraphs. Like he’s just posting notes to himself.

I don’t think he understands the purpose of blogging. Or maybe he is on the spectrum.

[¥akaSteelhead]

Oh my god. Boylan is a complete ass. How is it possible these people think they are actually living a religious life? Forget religion. How does Boylan justify his utter disrespect for human beings he doesn't agree with? How does he write, post, and talk like this, and then pretend to be a righteous Mormon? It's astonishing to think these are the people who work daily to defend their religion as apologists. They are so far from the image of legitimate defenders of a religion that I can't even fathom what has happened to the LDS church.

Seems pretty well aligned with most of the stuff I see coming out of the evangelical right. If Jesus were to return today, he'd have nothing to do with these folks. They seem to have forgotten the 2nd great commandment.

[Bond]

It should be noted that Robert Boylan, on his @Smormon Twitter account, “begged” for money 19 times and has a “begging for money” post pinned at the top of his account. Has any of the commenters on SeN who excoriate BR, Consig, or John Dehlin for “begging” taken Robert Boylan to task for “begging”?

He's just mad because those other guys are successful at soliciting donations and growing their channels while he's streaming to a hundred people. On the plus side he was voted YouTuber most likely to die in a book avalanche.

[Kishkumen]

He's just mad because those other guys are successful at soliciting donations and growing their channels while he's streaming to a hundred people. On the plus side he was voted YouTuber most likely to die in a book avalanche.

Philo should have that award.

[Moksha]

They seem to have forgotten the 2nd great commandment.

I remember when posters on the MAD board were clueless about this commandment. It is now downplayed because it conflicts with the Brethren's war against the LGBTQ community.

[Alphus and Omegus]

Part of the problem people have with Mopologists and their back slapping buddies is the double standard they apply to others. They’re the ones that call themselves Saints. They’re the ones that claim to strive for a higher standard, a code of conduct of sorts. When they act like assholes instead of just doing their own thing without attacking others like Saints ought to act, even if they’re attacked, they’re going to catch some serious crap.

They see no contradiction whatsoever between their rhetoric and actions. And that's because when you are deluded enough to imagine that you are God's personal servant, anything you do is moral. No action is wrong in the service of God. They all believe Barry Goldwater's line: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."

This is why Mormonism is always going to have a political extremism problem compared to other sects that don't pretend to have personal revelation.

[Marcus]

Oh boy. Just posting this here in case Parker Pan comes to his senses and takes it down.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2023 ... il-me.html

Jonathan Neville tried to blackmail me
By Peter | Tags: Ad hominem, Conspiracy theories, Dishonesty, Hypocrisy, Misrepresentation, Racism, Rian Nelson, You're scaring me Brother Neville
This is not a post I wanted to write. Unfortunately, it’s become necessary because Jonathan Neville has threatened to team up with anti-Mormon critics to attack me and my character unless I take down this entire blog.

(TL;DR version)

I’ll begin with some context:
Bill Reel’s podcast
On April 14, 2023, ex-Mormon podcaster Bill Reel hosted a 2 hour and 46 minute (!) YouTube livestream with the intent to (from the video’s description) “expose the shocking story of how a group of 5 white LDS apologists fabricated and perpetuated a fictional black apologist, Richard Nygren, to provide cover for one of their own. Through detailed investigation and interviews with key players, we reveal the disturbing truth behind this deceitful act and its coverup as well as the impact it has on those involved and on the Mormon apologetic community.”

The truth behind Reel’s breathless hyperbole is not nearly as interesting or dramatic as he tried to make it, and none of the supposed “key players” responded to his requests for information (unless Reel was referring to Jonathan Neville, in which case I’m not surprised). In addition to denying Reel’s spin that I or anyone else “perpetuated a fictional black apologist,” I also categorically state that neither I nor anyone else mentioned in Reel’s video made any fake Richard Nygren profiles on YouTube or any other social media platform or website.

That didn’t stop Reel from “grinning ear to ear” when he found a story he could spin to attack and defame a few Latter-day Saints. And his lackeys naturally ate up everything he said, making equally reprehensible comments in the live chat, including some loathsome attempts to dox me by posting my home address.
Pepe Silvia conspiracy theory It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
Bill Reel, probably
Because of Bill Reel’s video, I’ve received harassing messages from disturbed individuals accusing me of being a racist. Some of these messages have contained what could be considered threats. I won’t post those messages here, as they may be evidence if one of these people decides to follow through on their statements.

Normally, I would just ignore Reel’s video—“don’t feed the trolls,” and so forth. These deranged lunatics are obsessed with destroying people who believe in the restored gospel, and they experience no twinge of conscience when they distort the truth.

And then Jonathan Neville jumped on Bill Reel’s bandwagon.
Jonathan Neville promotes Bill Reel’s video
Jonathan Neville—who refuses to read anything I’ve written or to watch my interview with Robert Boylan—was apparently more than happy to watch Bill Reel’s podcast, because he posted about it on his blog.

In his blog post, Neville asserted:
Prominent members of the citation cartel concocted, promoted and perpetuated a fake blogger persona named ‘Peter Pan’ to attack me on an ad hominem blog that ridicules my family name.
Just about every word of that sentence is false.

There were no “prominent members” of anything involved with the creation and maintaining of this blog; it was solely my idea, and I alone am responsible for it.
By “promoted,” Neville is referring to Daniel Peterson sharing links to this blog on his own site from time to time. He did this not because he’s been involved in the creation or operation of this blog, but because Jonathan Neville has attacked him and other scholars with weird claims that they’re part of some conspiracy to promulgate “M2C” within the Church.
If Neville wants to call writing a blog under a pseudonym using “a fake blogger persona,” then I’m afraid to tell him that many blogs are pseudonymous, many famous authors have written under pseudonyms, and even many early American Founders wrote pseudonymously. (I certainly don’t consider this blog to be on the level of Thomas Paine’s anonymously published Common Sense, of course.) As I’ve stated before, I used a pseudonym to protect myself from unstable people—a decision that has now proven itself to be prophetic, as I’ll explain in a moment.
To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never “attacked” Jonathan Neville on this blog. I’ve at times been sarcastic or snarky, but I’ve always tried to focus on his claims and assertions, not on his person. If anyone can give me examples of where I’ve “attacked” him, please let me know in the comments below; if there are legitimate examples, I’ll gladly remove them and apologize.
The name of this blog is not “ad hominem,” because that’s not what ad hominem means.
This is the first time that Neville has alleged that the name Neville-Neville Land “ridicules [his] family name.” It’s strange that he’s waited this long to make an issue about it; this blog has existed for over four years, and only now he’s bringing this up? It seems to me that he’s desperately seeking some opportunity to criticize me.

Amid his many other claims, Neville also asserted in his blog post:
For years, these guys have been falsely accusing Heartlanders of racist motives when it is they themselves who used a phony and racist persona to mislead their own readers and followers (and donors, in the case of Dan Peterson).
This is a rather audacious claim, considering that Rian Nelson on the FIRM Foundation’s blog has made repeated antisemitic statements, statements that Neville himself has shrugged off by writing, “Lots of people think crazy things, and normally that doesn’t matter because we recognize that none of us is perfect.”

Neither Jonathan Neville nor Bill Reel cared when the FIRM Foundation was posting vile, racist antisemitism on a regular basis. Only after Daniel Peterson blogged about it did Neville address it, with a response that equates to, "Yeah, that’s not great, but it’s just Rian being Rian.” But now that they think they’ve got me dead to rights, suddenly the mere mention of a fictitious Black man has them screaming “EMERGENCY! RACISM! DANGER!” Actual incendiary antisemitism is something they’re happy to overlook and excuse, but merely mentioning a nonexistent Black man as part of a joke is apparently beyond the pale. Hypocrisy much?

One could reasonably accuse Reel and Neville of being nothing more than deplorable opportunists.

And, as I’ve already stated, I’ve never used a “racist persona” in any way on any platform. Claims that I or anyone I know has done so are absolutely false.
My personal request to Jonathan Neville
After I saw Neville’s blog post, I sent him the following email on April 18, 2023. I asked him to not share this message online out of respect for my family’s privacy, but unfortunately I’m now forced to post it publicly to provide context for Neville’s response. (I’ve made a few slight changes to my email to remove some sensitive, personal information.)
Brother Neville,

I notice that you have blogged approvingly about Bill Reel’s video about me.

Setting Reel’s egregiously false spin on these events aside for the moment, his video invades my privacy by discussing in general terms where I live and work. (He lives in the same part of Southern Utah that I do.) Several comments in his YouTube video have tried to dox me by providing my home address and links to information about me on my employer’s website.

I have already received several harassing messages from people who have seen the video. These I can deal with, but they have troubled my family members. They have been terrified by what sound like threats and worried about disturbed individuals showing up at our home uninvited.

I’ve already reported Reel’s YouTube video as harassing me, but it seems unlikely that they’ll do anything about it.

I’m asking you, as a fellow Latter-day Saint and on behalf of my family, to please remove your blog posts linking to Reel’s video. The less advertisement his salacious trash can get, the better.

Kind regards,

Mike Parker
Jonathan Neville’s response and attempt to blackmail me
Neville so far responded to my email three times. The first reply came on the afternoon of April 18th. (I’ve made a couple of slight changes to his email to remove some sensitive, personal information.)
I certainly won’t say anything about your email here (although you felt free to publicize my private email to you), but I can’t tell if you’re serious in your request about deleting my post.

I’m sorry for your family members’ distress, but you didn’t care about the impact of your blog on my family, did you? For years, you and Dan have been ridiculing my family name. None of my children, extended family, friends, ward members, or anyone outside of your Interpreters pals thought you were funny, cute or clever (or honorable, Christian, etc.).

If you completely delete your blog, and ask Dan (and the rest of the Interpreters) to do the same with his (their) links to it, I would gladly remove my blog post because then I would have no reason to leave up my posts and links to Bill’s video that explains your blog and alter ego (Peter Pan). I could unwind my observations about Dan as well.

Then, if you’re willing, we could have a cordial and brotherly exchange of views on a neutral site. I would welcome that. And I’m sure our Church leaders would be relieved, as well.

What do you think?

Best,

Jonathan
Thirteen minutes letter, he followed up with another short message:
by the way, your email was timely. I was about to upload a follow-up post on all of this. I’ll defer that, pending your response.
Jonathan Neville does not seemingly recognize any distinctive difference between a pun that he finds personally offensive and a video that distorts the truth and exposes me and my family to unbalanced individuals who may wish to harm us. Got it.

And he will remove one blog post only if I completely delete my entire blog and ask Daniel Peterson and everyone else who has linked to it to remove their posts. I don’t know about you, but that seems a bit disproportionate to me.

But it gets worse. On the morning of April 19, 2023, he emailed me again with the subject “Decision time”:
Hi Mike. I postponed my follow-up in post light of your request, but I have to assume your silence means you don’t want to work through this.

You may think this is all about your southern Utah dispute with Bill Reel, but thanks to Dan Peterson’s promotion of your blog, I’ve heard about Peter Pan from as far away as Europe and Australia. People deserve to know the background as Bill explained it. Unfortunately, the critics are having a field day with it. Your Peter Pan stunt has managed to give Bill a lot of credibility by reinforcing the stereotypes of LDS apologists, while making Dan and the rest of the Interpreters look like racist fools. Bill has had over 8,000 views in just 4 days, which makes it one of his biggest videos so far, and John Dehlin will undoubtedly do an episode.

This can go two ways, your choice.

One, I can accept the invites I’ve already had and do more podcasts, blogs, etc. From my perspective, the whole “Peter Pan” fiasco epitomizes the problems with the Dan Peterson approach to apologetics, so I’m happy to discuss the topic until that changes.

Two, we can use this situation as a path to reconciliation, eliminate the contention, and discuss the issues in a reasonable, friendly, cordial way that models the “unity in diversity” approach I’ve been seeking all along. That would defuse the critics and demonstrate a new, healthy, noncontentious form of apologetics.

Your choice.

What do you want to do?

Call me any time. 801-███-████.

Best,

Jonathan
“This can go two ways, your choice.”

Jonathan Neville has explicitly threatened me that, unless I delete my entire blog, he’ll go on anti-Mormon podcasts and attack me and my character. Not to rebut my arguments or refute my claims, but to promote the false narrative about me “as Bill [Reel] explained it.”
The Godfather I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse
“I’m gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse.”
The “honorable, Christian” thing to do would have been for him to simply remove his blog post to help prevent the spread of misinformation and threats against my family. Instead, Jonathan Neville chose the nuclear option: Do what he says or he’ll go on a campaign of personal destruction using the platforms of enemies of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

For years, Neville and his associates have misrepresented and abused fellow Latter-day Saints. He’s been dishonest and stabbed people in the back whenever they have tried to open a dialog with him. Now he’s allowing himself to be used as a tool by anti-Mormon critics who want to destroy everything he supposedly believes just to get back at me for supposedly hurting his feelings. This tells me everything I need to know about his moral character.

Jonathan Neville and Bill Reel accuse me of being a racist because of a joke that I myself didn’t make, didn’t repeat, and didn’t do anything to disseminate. Meanwhile, Neville has hand-waved away explicit and repeated antisemitic statements made by one of his own friends and associates with the excuse that “people are complicated.” His hypocrisy knows no bounds.

My attempt to correspond with him was a mistake, as he is clearly an unprincipled individual.

Mr. Neville: Please go ahead and ally yourself with anti-Mormons; this will help people like me warn the Saints about what kind of person you really are.

The blog stays up.

Mike Parker [“Peter Pan”]

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I have already received several harassing messages from people who have seen the video. These I can deal with, but they have troubled my family members. They have been terrified by what sound like threats and worried about disturbed individuals showing up at our home uninvited.

So, running a years-long hate blog attacking a bunch of people using the in real life information, and showing up to a man’s former place of work thinking he was still employed there is different.



What an absolute doorknob. Guess no apology will be forthcoming, and Mike “Peter Pan” Parker will double down as Mopes do. Also, note he still hasn’t come clean with regard to Captain Hook’s identity. Parker lies in that the blog was his thing alone. He and Captain Hook collaborated, obviously, quite a bit.

- Doc

eta: If you really think you’re putting yourself and your family’s safety in danger by being a provocateur, then maybe don’t do that? *shrugs* Just a suggestion, Mike.

[Marcus]

To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never “attacked” Jonathan Neville on this blog. I’ve at times been sarcastic or snarky, but I’ve always tried to focus on his claims and assertions, not on his person. If anyone can give me examples of where I’ve “attacked” him, please let me know in the comments below; if there are legitimate examples, I’ll gladly remove them and apologize

Here’s hoping someone posts Everybody Wang Chung’s partial list:

Mike Parker's dishonesty would make even DCP blush. Mike Parker recently wrote, "I have my differences with Jonathan Neville, but I have never called him names."

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2023 ... ville.html

Let's just take a look at a few of the many hundreds of examples of Mike Parker's name calling and personal attacks:

Jonathan Neville is a sad, little man with grandiose ideas of his own self-importance.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2021 ... about.html

Jonathan Neville makes things up. He invents people, invents history, and invents his own facts. This is what people do when they don’t have the truth on their side: They lie.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/sear ... inate=true

Jonathan Neville has passive–aggressive personality. When I claim that Neville and his cohorts are flirting with apostasy, I’m not “resorting” to anything—I mean it.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2020 ... ality.html

Jonathan Neville is unfair and untruthful. Misrepresentation is a hallmark of the writings of Jonathan Neville, who has continually attacked and falsely accused those who disagree with him. Neville frequently engages in this sort of “bite the hand that feeds you” behavior.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2022 ... thful.html

Another shameless lie from Jonathan Neville

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2022 ... ville.html

Another of Jonathan Neville’s specious comparisons.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2022 ... rison.html

But, once again, we see Jonathan Neville resorting to lying about those who are critical of him. Jonathan Neville’s principal approach is misrepresentation of his opponents’ arguments.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2021 ... bated.html

Jonathan Neville is simply disingenuous

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2021 ... nuous.html

I’ve previously mentioned Jonathan Neville’s odd sense of humor. (Honestly, I don’t think he understands what a meme is and is not.)

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2021 ... to-me.html

There are times when I question Jonathan Neville’s ability to read and understand even the most unambiguous historical texts. It simply boggles the mind that Jonathan Neville can be so careless in his statements, so irresponsible in his treatment of the historical record.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2021 ... again.html

Jonathan Neville’s pants are on fire.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/sear ... inate=true

Jonathan Neville is so tedious. As I’ve pointed out numerous times, he asserts the same false claims over, and over, and over, and over again,

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2021 ... itive.html

Make no mistake: Jonathan Neville is a critic of the Church. Jonathan Neville at the summit of confirmation bias. It requires a breathtaking lack of self-awareness for Jonathan Neville to write.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2020 ... -bias.html

As I’ve pointed out many, many times on this blog, Jonathan Neville gives the appearance of lacking even a shred of self-awareness. Neville, may I point out your continual posting of passive-aggressive statements.

https://www.nevillenevilleland.com/2020 ... lling.html