In honor of Mormonism

[dastardly stem]

Before creating did God know evil things would play out as a result of creating?

Or

Before creating did God not know evil things would play out as a result of creating?

Or did he not know, but only suspected that evil things would play out as a result of creating, and went ahead anyway?

Thanks, Malkie. Isn't your option just the option I gave wherein I asked if God did not know?

[huckelberry]

Hi Stem, I can see one statement here which I can understand as true. If God did not create there would be no people doing anything bad,(or good ,or indifferent for that matter). That is certainly a logical statement. Your statement ,"if god didn't conceive of evil as a result of his creation there'd be no evil" is a baseless speculation to my mind, a sort of imaginary, what if, sort of story plot.

I mentioned that there are other creatures capable of thought and decisions such as coyotes. I do not know why that suggested to you that god did not have a plan. Why would god need a serpent in the garden? I thought it fairly clear that what was operative in the snake is operative in us.Perhaps you imagine that unless god invented evil people would be behaving better than saints.I am unable to see that as realistic.

Before creating did God know evil things would play out as a result of creating?

Or

Before creating did God not know evil things would play out as a result of creating?

Stem, I am unaware of any reason to think God was unable to figure that out.

[dastardly stem]

Before creating did God know evil things would play out as a result of creating?

Or

Before creating did God not know evil things would play out as a result of creating?

Stem, I am unaware of any reason to think God was unable to figure that out.

So is it possible that could have chosen not to create, or was he forced to create in some way?

[huckelberry]

Stem, I am unaware of any reason to think God was unable to figure that out.

So is it possible that could have chosen not to create, or was he forced to create in some way?

Stem,
The normal working theory is that the choice to create was a free choice. There was no police force requiring creation. If one wants to theorize one might apply the same strictures on free choice as are argued about for human choices. One could propose it is gods basic nature to create so god has always chosen to create. It is probably clearer to be simple and just say God choose to create.

We have already both agreed that there are some bad things that result from that choice.

[dastardly stem]

So is it possible that could have chosen not to create, or was he forced to create in some way?

Stem,

The normal working theory is that the choice to create was a free choice. There was no police force requiring creation. If one wants to theorize one might apply the same strictures on free choice as are argued about for human choices. One could propose it is gods basic nature to create so god has always chosen to create. It is probably clearer to be simple and just say God choose to create.

We have already both agreed that there are some bad things that result from that choice.

The entailment then is, god is the cause of all evil, correct?

[huckelberry]

ZZZZZZZZZZZ......ZZZZZZZZZZ......

[huckelberry]

ZZZZZZZZZZZ......ZZZZZZZZZZ......

waking,

Oh I had a funny dream. This fellow Jerry was out about drinking at the tavern and continued well beyond the point he should have left off drinking. No one stopped him at the bar, it was busy. Jerry jumped into his car and took off, turning onto the freeway. He did not notice the wrong way sign due to blurry vision and was unable to stop to avoid the pickup truck coming the other way. The result was unpleasant.

But Jerry understood it was not his fault. Beer makers created the problem, the bar tender should have stopped him. There wouldn't have been a problem if that other fellow had not been driving down the road. And to consider further there definitely is fault with the road makers and car makers. They create so many problems. But to really get down to the root of the problem, its gods fault, god started it all and is behind each and every one of those problems.

[malkie]

Or did he not know, but only suspected that evil things would play out as a result of creating, and went ahead anyway?

Thanks, Malkie. Isn't your option just the option I gave wherein I asked if God did not know?

Could be, stem - but I see a difference between straight not knowing that something would happen, and suspecting that it might.

That may just be me, though.

[dastardly stem]

ZZZZZZZZZZZ......ZZZZZZZZZZ......

waking,

Oh I had a funny dream. This fellow Jerry was out about drinking at the tavern and continued well beyond the point he should have left off drinking. No one stopped him at the bar, it was busy. Jerry jumped into his car and took off, turning onto the freeway. He did not notice the wrong way sign due to blurry vision and was unable to stop to avoid the pickup truck coming the other way. The result was unpleasant.

But Jerry understood it was not his fault. Beer makers created the problem, the bar tender should have stopped him. There wouldn't have been a problem if that other fellow had not been driving down the road. And to consider further there definitely is fault with the road makers and car makers. They create so many problems. But to really get down to the root of the problem, its gods fault, god started it all and is behind each and every one of those problems.

What does this have to do with what I’ve said in this thread, huckelberry?

[dastardly stem]

Thanks, Malkie. Isn't your option just the option I gave wherein I asked if God did not know?

Could be, stem - but I see a difference between straight not knowing that something would happen, and suspecting that it might.

That may just be me, though.

I can see that. The options were he knew or did not. If he didn’t know he definitely could have guessed or suspected.