The rock in the hat
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Re: The rock in the hat
Rock in the hat?
I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in. Of course if you do not believe the Book or Mormon story the stone in the hat suggests other associations.
I do not believe the Book of Mormon story for other reasons. It seems like the stone in the hat may have been a device to help his story telling along. Might help memory. Might be theater to present to others and distract.
I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. I do not remember feeling strongly negative or positive about it.
I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in. Of course if you do not believe the Book or Mormon story the stone in the hat suggests other associations.
I do not believe the Book of Mormon story for other reasons. It seems like the stone in the hat may have been a device to help his story telling along. Might help memory. Might be theater to present to others and distract.
I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. I do not remember feeling strongly negative or positive about it.
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Re: The rock in the hat
In the 70s the stone the hat was not mentioned, and if you were 19 1/2 and not a mission in the early 80s, something was very wrong with you.
“One of the important things for anybody in power is to distinguish between what you have the right to do and what is right to do." Potter Stewart, associate justice of the Supreme Court - 1958 to 1981.
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Re: The rock in the hat
Incorrect. There was nothing wrong with you, and what most other people thought about you not being on a mission is irrelevant. You need to let go of things and live your own life.yellowstone123 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:12 pmIn the 70s the stone the hat was not mentioned, and if you were 19 1/2 and not a mission in the early 80s, something was very wrong with you.
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Re: The rock in the hat
yellowstone, I can see that the rock and hat might represent all of the reasons to doubt the church story line which a person might encounter. Though I can remember a time when I believed with some fervor I had become a complete nonbeliever at the end of high school, no more participation at all and certainly no mission.I certainly did not think there was anything wrong with me. I was lucky that my parents were accepting though not agreeing. I had a good friend whose parents were completely nonaccepting of his disbelief. He went through emotional conflict, some personal hell, which in time he was able to grow past.yellowstone123 wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:12 pmIn the 70s the stone the hat was not mentioned, and if you were 19 1/2 and not a mission in the early 80s, something was very wrong with you.
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Re: The rock in the hat
In my four years in seminary, the rock in the hat was never covered. Sounds like your seminary experience was at least a bit more accurate than mine.huckelberry wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 10:07 pmRock in the hat?
I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in.* * *
I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. * * *
It's not the mechanism that is troubling: studiously studying gold plates and stating aloud the English translation of characters (of whatever language) on those plates so that the scribe could write it down in English, or a stone in a hat with the English verbiage appearing above the rock in the hat. The trouble is with the dishonest narrative peddled by the Church for decades and decades. Why? Did the Church leaders know or think there was something wrong or extra hokey about a stone in a hat? Did they not trust how listeners/readers might react to the stone in the hat mechanism? The Church leaders took pains to shovel an inaccuracy, and have proven themselves not trustworthy. We were told God wanted us to believe these leaders, no matter what. To then find out that they perpetuated a lie about this seemingly innocuous point leaves many, myself included, feeling betrayed. Was it God betraying us or just these men in suits in SLC? Either way, it is betrayal and if I had not already jettisoned the Mormon church, that betrayal when I learned of the stone in the hat would have led to my sh*tcanning it.
Apologists try to shill an explanation to questioning members as though science and reason really explain and buttress their professed faith. It [sic] does not. By definition, faith is the antithesis of science and reason. Apologetics is a further deception by faith peddlers to keep power and influence.
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Re: The rock in the hat
Thank you for your thoughts.
“One of the important things for anybody in power is to distinguish between what you have the right to do and what is right to do." Potter Stewart, associate justice of the Supreme Court - 1958 to 1981.
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Re: The rock in the hat
Remember that Joseph Smith was subjected to a legal proceeding for using the rock to find treasure. It seems he wanted to move away from the rock to avoid bringing up the past, at least that is what some scholars have said and it makes sense.huckelberry wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 10:07 pmRock in the hat?
I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in. Of course if you do not believe the Book or Mormon story the stone in the hat suggests other associations.
I do not believe the Book of Mormon story for other reasons. It seems like the stone in the hat may have been a device to help his story telling along. Might help memory. Might be theater to present to others and distract.
I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. I do not remember feeling strongly negative or positive about it.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
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Re: The rock in the hat
It’s true to the core. If something didn’t resonate, a court of law was brought in to decide what was truth and how to proceed.
“One of the important things for anybody in power is to distinguish between what you have the right to do and what is right to do." Potter Stewart, associate justice of the Supreme Court - 1958 to 1981.
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Re: The rock in the hat
Say what??yellowstone123 wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 4:26 pmIt’s true to the core. If something didn’t resonate, a court of law was brought in to decide what was truth and how to proceed.
yellowstone you could perhaps clue us in on what you are thinking of here. I am aware of courts making decisions about criminal guilt or liability suits. There are many sorts of questions with uncertainty untouched by courts. (such as did Joseph use a stone to help speak the Book of Mormon, did words from God appear on the stone, or were the words from an angelic translation committee)
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Re: The rock in the hat
Dr Exiled. I may be forgetting something but I am a puzzled by your remark. Did not the court case take place before the creation of the Book of Mormon? I am not remembering Joseph Smith denying use of a seer stone though I understand he quit using it as the church grew.Dr Exiled wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 11:38 pmRemember that Joseph Smith was subjected to a legal proceeding for using the rock to find treasure. It seems he wanted to move away from the rock to avoid bringing up the past, at least that is what some scholars have said and it makes sense.huckelberry wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 10:07 pmRock in the hat?
I do not know why the translation story would be more believable if he stared at the plates he could not read and said words.I do not know why those stone spectacles would be more appropriate. It seems to me that if you believe the Book of Mormon story at all the stone in the hat fits right in. Of course if you do not believe the Book or Mormon story the stone in the hat suggests other associations.
I do not believe the Book of Mormon story for other reasons. It seems like the stone in the hat may have been a device to help his story telling along. Might help memory. Might be theater to present to others and distract.
I am pretty sure stone in hat was covered in seminary class. I do not remember feeling strongly negative or positive about it.