drumdude wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 5:00 pm
Kish,
I encourage you to share the emails from DCP now that he has publicly doxxed you. The world deserves to know how the church’s top apologist behaves when he thinks no one is looking, in my opinion.
Nah. I don't think so. He basically said that he would no longer "protect my identity." Then he showed by his willingness to call me by name, refer to my profession, and then identify me as Kishkumen what he thinks that means. I am not about to publish emails he sent to me thinking they would remain private.
I will, however, gladly share the outrageous email that the late Bill Hamblin sent me years ago. I doubt he will mind.
Dear Dr. XXXXX (a.k.a. Kishkumen, a.k.a. Scratch),
We’ve never met, but you have come to my attention as an anti-Mormon on the internet. I recently read the following statements by you on the Mormon Discussion board.
“Personally, all I had hoped would happen was an end to the practice of sliming of members. ... Even if it is a small portion of what they do, it was a shameful blot on its record, and a shameful blot on the university that supports it. Far better to be done with the skinny-l slam tactics and turn to more interesting and legitimate scholarship.”
“I will say that I hope the Mormon Studies Review succeeds in its new direction, if that new direction excludes attacks on LDS Church members in good standing.”
First, I should note that John Dehlin is not a “member in good standing.” He is an apostate who doesn’t believe in God, in Christ, in the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith’s prophetic call, etc. etc. And that’s fine; lots of good sincere people don’t believe in the church. The problem is tries to pretend to be a “member in good standing” to one audience, but shows his true colors to another. Furthermore, no one is sliming him. I’ve read the article, you haven’t. Greg Smith’s article simply calls attention to the reality behind Dehlin’s carefully crafted, though utterly false, public image.
I think it is important to note here that one-time regular of the board, Rollo Tomasi, wrote a detailed analysis of the Smith hit-piece and showed quite clearly that it was indeed a hit-piece that was written to damage John Dehlin's reputation.
Second, I note the high irony in your objection to “sliming” and “attacking” a member of the Church, while participating with great gusto in sliming and attacking Dan Peterson--a member of the church in good standing, and a good friend of mine. Why is it just and meritorious for you to relentlessly “slime” and “attack” Dan?
How would you feel if there was a discussion board in which you were relentlessly attacked, slandered, maligned, lied about, mocked, degraded, etc.? What if this had been going on for a decade? What if confidential letters regarding your promotion and tenure at [Kish's employer] were leaked to that board? What if they became the subject of relentless mirth and slander?
How would you feel if I were to draw attention to your chairman and dean about your active and extensive participation as Kiskumen and Scratch in the most vile and repugnantly bigoted anti-Mormon discussion board I’ve had the misfortune to ever see? (So what if you aren’t Scratch--all we need to do is accuse you of it, right? Rumor is truth on the Mormon Discussion board, right?--at least when it’s about Dan Peterson.) Do you think your chair and dean would approve of this use of your time? Do you think that they would be happy or dismayed that you spend your time prancing around on anti-Mormon message boards rather than preparing classes, researching, and writing professional publications? Do you think it might be considered this a “shameful blot on the university that supports you?” How would they feel about your extensive participation in, say, a similar discussion board filled with raving anti-Semites?
But not to worry. This is not a threat. I have absolutely no intention of doing this, or anything like it. I find such behavior disgusting and despicable, whether it is done to Dan Peterson or you, or anyone else. I simply bring this up as an analogy for your consideration, to let you get a personal sense of what you and your friends have been doing to Dan and many others for years--in a cowardly and anonymous fashion, I might add. At any rate, please, please come off your moral high horse of decrying the sliming and attacking of members of the church in good standing in the exact same breath that you slime and attack Dan. It’s really, really hard to stomach.
Please don’t post this on your vile board.
Bill Hamblin
I want a couple of things clear. First, I don't hate Bill Hamblin. I understand him being defensive about his friend DCP. At the same time, I think his words were incredibly revealing. For him, the only person who is meaningfully Mormon is one who supports and obeys the leaders of the LDS Church. If you criticize the LDS Church, then you are an anti-Mormon, even if you are Mormon. I thought it was pretty amazing that he equated my criticism of apologetics and LDS leaders with anti-Semitism.
Next, he holds as being equivalent him defending the multi-billion dollar religious corporation he works for by attacking its critics with individual Mormons criticizing those defenders without the benefit of employment in, or the support of, that corporation. Yeah, there is a good reason to remain anonymous. We have seen how people have been attacked, lampooned, bullied, threatened and even excommunicated from the LDS Church for daring to criticize.
Finally, I think it is really funny how he threatens me and then tells me that he is not threatening me. Once you utter certain words, you have no hope but to be taken somewhat seriously. Knowing as I do that Mopologists have contacted people's employers in the past, and having heard straight from one person that their supervisor was contacted by a Mopologist over online criticism, I had to imagine that he just might do what he was threatening to do, even though he claimed he was not threatening to do so. Later I was told by someone on BYU campus that someone from FARMS had indeed contacted my department chairman. To this day I do not know for sure whether that happened, and I rather think it did not, but it would not be an unthinkable possibility.
Anyway, fun times. Groan.