Vogel's book, Hale reviews and Vogel responds.

[yellowstone123]

the link does not work for me. it goes to Nauvoo.com (not secure)

[Marcus]

Huckelberry, here is the title and hopefully a clearer link, without the line break:

The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice?
By Orson Scott Card

http://nauvoo.com/library/card-Book of Mormon.html

I would just post the whole thing, but the site requested pple not do that.

[malkie]

My bolding.

So (!), if you look at the first 100 sentences in The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice?, you will find 7 that begin with "And", "Then", or "But", and 1 each that begin with "So" or "Yet". The vast majority seem (although I didn't actually count them) to begin with "The", "He", "We", or "It".

Of course, it's possible that the remaining 379 sentences start with one of Card's self-identified markers of importance and truth. I don't plan on counting them, though.

Is it reasonable to make any deductions about the importance and veracity of Card's talk from the markers that he implicitly invited us to use to evaluate it?

Malkie, I am not able to access the full article so may be in error in what I read in the quote. I see in the quote only Card observing he was influenced by the style of the Book of Mormon because it meant so much to him. No particular claim about veracity being shown by the style. I am left not knowing what Card found of value in the Book. Well, even I might find some things.

We are being stymied by the auto-correct of "𝙗𝒐𝙤𝒌𝙤𝒇𝙢𝒐𝙧𝒎𝙤𝒏" on this (discussmormonism) site to "Book of Mormon".

Use the URL that marcus provided, but remove the two "%20" strings, and lowercase the "B" and the "M".

Here is what I bolded, in which he is talking about his own writing, of which The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice? is an example:

Anybody who wonders why practically every sentence begins with "and," "then," "but" -- you just have to think of the phrase "And it came to pass," and you will understand where that comes from. You see, if a sentence is important and true, I instinctively feel that it must begin with a conjunction.

TL;DR:
Card tells us how he signals important and true sentences. In his article, he applies the signal in fewer than 10% of the of the first 100 sentences.

[malkie]

If you prefer, you can click the "Quote" button, copy the un-corrected URL from the quoted text, and then cancel the quote.

Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again

[Dr Moore]

Hales’ wall of text in one sentence: “everything Joseph ever did should be seen as pure, honest, inspired and divine because Book of Mormon.”

[Physics Guy]

It sounds as though Card likes the Book of Mormon as scripture—that is, he's impressed by what it specifically says. What I was wondering was whether Card, or any other Mormon novelist, has ever endorsed the kinds of claims that Hales made, about how impossible it would have been to just make up any text with that many words and names and characters and stories.

Hales doesn't argue, after all, that Smith could never have invented the profound revelations of spiritual truth in the Book of Mormon. What Hales says amounts to asserting that Joseph Smith could not have written any novel at all, not even a bad one. Actual novelists might believe the Book of Mormon is more than even a great novel, but they have to know that writing a bad novel isn't so hard.

[huckelberry]

Huckelberry, here is the title and hopefully a clearer link, without the line break:

The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice?
By Orson Scott Card

http://nauvoo.com/library/card-Book of Mormon.html

I would just post the whole thing, but the site requested pple not do that.

all I get,

Not Found

The requested URL /library/card-Book of Mormon.html was not found on this server.

[Marcus]

Huckelberry, here is the title and hopefully a clearer link, without the line break:

The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice?
By Orson Scott Card

http://nauvoo.com/library/card-Book of Mormon.html

I would just post the whole thing, but the site requested pple not do that.

all I get,

Not Found

The requested URL /library/card-Book of Mormon.html was not found on this server.

I'm sorry, I'll see if I can find a different link.

[malkie]

Huckelberry, here is the title and hopefully a clearer link, without the line break:

The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice?
By Orson Scott Card

http://nauvoo.com/library/card-Book of Mormon.html

I would just post the whole thing, but the site requested pple not do that.

all I get,

Not Found

The requested URL /library/card-Book of Mormon.html was not found on this server.

Huck, In my reply to you above, I explained, but here is some more detail:

We are being stymied by the auto-correct of "𝙗𝒐𝙤𝒌𝙤𝒇𝙢𝒐𝙧𝒎𝙤𝒏" on this (discussmormonism) site to "Book of Mormon".

Use the URL that marcus provided, but remove the two "%20" strings, and lowercase the "B" and the "M". Or, if you prefer, you can click the "Quote" button (on marcus' post), copy the un-corrected URL from the quoted text, and then cancel the quote. Then paste the uncorrected URL into a browser window/tab.

Alternative: search for "The Book of Mormon - Artifact or Artifice? - Orson Scott Card" and use the link from nauvoo.com

[yellowstone123]

This is so funny. The link still does not work for me at least. And I'm listening to and laughing as John Larsen on Mormon Stories, going after Ezra Taft Benson. and I was ripping on Mormon Stories this morning. One knows Larsen has been preparing his whole life for Pioneer Day, 2023; for the moment. These last two hours to listening to Larsen at his best.

There are so many people I'm throwing at Benson, like my hero Golda Meir and see how he would likely respond if he or she were alive. She was a Zionist Socialist.

Benson and Golda lived at the same time but they did not think alike. They were complete opposites in every way. and not Zion Missouri, or Utah, Zion, or Brigham Young, Zion; but Israel Zion. Golda was not a religious Jew but she loved Israel.