Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

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Marcus
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Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Marcus »

The painting “Profile of a Young Fiancee,” first believed to be created by an 18th-century German artist, was once valued at $20,000. But on closer examination of where the portrait came from, scholars discovered the piece was actually created by 16-century inventor, philosopher and artist Leonardo da Vinci.

The painting was accordingly revalued at $160 million.

“Nothing changed about that painting,” said Steve Lundwall, a solo practitioner at Lundwall Law PLLC, who co-taught a lecture at Brigham Young University’s Education Week 2023. “What changed was people’s appreciation of its provenance. That’s it. And when people appreciated that, all of a sudden, they valued it. Now, let’s apply that principle to the Book of Mormon.”

He was joined by his wife, Rebecca Lundwall, an associate professor in developmental psychology at BYU. On Tuesday, Aug. 22, among the many classes of BYU Education Week, the duo taught about the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as seen through its provenance.

They explained how old records and documents get their legitimacy from “provenance” — or the tracking of ownership with historic material over time — and how the Book of Mormon’s provenance gives undeniable proof of its place in history.

The book’s chain of custody

“If you know the provenance story of a thing, book or art,” said Rebecca Lundwall, “and have evidence to back that provenance story up, that thing becomes monumentally more valuable.”

She said that provenance consists of two things: first, evidence to show the chain of custody of where something came from. Second, a detailed itinerary of it over time.

A historic document is considered authentic if proof of its origin can be shown, yet this can be difficult to find because records are lost and destroyed over time. Even the Bible’s provenance can be difficult to determine because it was compiled of many sources from various locations.

The Book of Mormon, however, has detailed documentation about who wrote each book, since the records were passed on to descendants. Mormon abridged the gold plates by referring to original sources kept through history. The passing on of these records continued until Moroni himself entrusted the Prophet Joseph Smith with the gold plates, “thereby keeping intact the provenance of that record,” said Steve Lundwall.

This is one reason the book of Omni includes many writers, even when some had not much to say. Rebecca Lundwall said, “I do think this was instruction for the custodians and scribes of the record to always document the passing on of the records, because God is trying to keep the provenance intact.”

Steve Lundwall said the Book of Mormon “is a work of art that took millennia to make, that God overshadowed to keep the record accounted for.”

https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-fa ... thenticity
I am stunned by the complete lack of intelligent thought in this article. They canNOT be serious. This is utterly ridiculous.

They are arguing for the provenance of a nonexistent item. What are these people thinking?!!!!!!
Marcus
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Marcus »

A historic document is considered authentic if proof of its origin can be shown, yet this can be difficult to find because records are lost and destroyed over time. Even the Bible’s provenance can be difficult to determine because it was compiled of many sources from various locations.

The Book of Mormon, however, has detailed documentation about who wrote each book, since the records were passed on to descendants.
This is UTTER BS. I am stunned that such nonsense passes for academic research.
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Gadianton
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Gadianton »

so they end up giving the exact reason why nobody would ever accept the Book of Mormon as ancient. That is, even if the author did a better job at mimicking "Bible writing".
"if you can't admire Joe Biden as a person then it's probably, you got a problem." -- Lindsey Graham
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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:28 am
A historic document is considered authentic if proof of its origin can be shown, yet this can be difficult to find because records are lost and destroyed over time. Even the Bible’s provenance can be difficult to determine because it was compiled of many sources from various locations.

The Book of Mormon, however, has detailed documentation about who wrote each book, since the records were passed on to descendants.
This is UTTER B.S.. I am stunned that such nonsense passes for academic research.
I would like to say I'm surprised, but after decades of reading what passes as academic research by apologists/Mopologists, I would be surprised if it wasn't complete and utter nonsense.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

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drumdude
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by drumdude »

I have a book written by Abraham Lincoln (dictated by me) who compiled a bunch of George Washington’s writings. It says so in my book so therefore it is true.

Who wants to pay me $60 million for it?
I Have Questions
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by I Have Questions »

Marcus wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:19 am
The painting “Profile of a Young Fiancee,” first believed to be created by an 18th-century German artist, was once valued at $20,000. But on closer examination of where the portrait came from, scholars discovered the piece was actually created by 16-century inventor, philosopher and artist Leonardo da Vinci.

The painting was accordingly revalued at $160 million.

“Nothing changed about that painting,” said Steve Lundwall, a solo practitioner at Lundwall Law PLLC, who co-taught a lecture at Brigham Young University’s Education Week 2023. “What changed was people’s appreciation of its provenance. That’s it. And when people appreciated that, all of a sudden, they valued it. Now, let’s apply that principle to the Book of Mormon.”

He was joined by his wife, Rebecca Lundwall, an associate professor in developmental psychology at BYU. On Tuesday, Aug. 22, among the many classes of BYU Education Week, the duo taught about the authenticity of the Book of Mormon as seen through its provenance.

They explained how old records and documents get their legitimacy from “provenance” — or the tracking of ownership with historic material over time — and how the Book of Mormon’s provenance gives undeniable proof of its place in history.

The book’s chain of custody

“If you know the provenance story of a thing, book or art,” said Rebecca Lundwall, “and have evidence to back that provenance story up, that thing becomes monumentally more valuable.”

She said that provenance consists of two things: first, evidence to show the chain of custody of where something came from. Second, a detailed itinerary of it over time.

A historic document is considered authentic if proof of its origin can be shown, yet this can be difficult to find because records are lost and destroyed over time. Even the Bible’s provenance can be difficult to determine because it was compiled of many sources from various locations.

The Book of Mormon, however, has detailed documentation about who wrote each book, since the records were passed on to descendants. Mormon abridged the gold plates by referring to original sources kept through history. The passing on of these records continued until Moroni himself entrusted the Prophet Joseph Smith with the gold plates, “thereby keeping intact the provenance of that record,” said Steve Lundwall.

This is one reason the book of Omni includes many writers, even when some had not much to say. Rebecca Lundwall said, “I do think this was instruction for the custodians and scribes of the record to always document the passing on of the records, because God is trying to keep the provenance intact.”

Steve Lundwall said the Book of Mormon “is a work of art that took millennia to make, that God overshadowed to keep the record accounted for.”

https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-fa ... thenticity
I am stunned by the complete lack of intelligent thought in this article. They canNOT be serious. This is utterly ridiculous.

They are arguing for the provenance of a nonexistent item. What are these people thinking?!!!!!!
Here’s how the Church News describes the author of this nonsense…
Joel Randall is a writing intern with the Church News. He has worked as a writing/editing intern with the Liahona magazine, assistant copy editor at the BYU–Idaho Scroll newspaper and freelance copy editor on Upwork.com. Joel is the author of the self-published book “Study, Sleep, Repeat: 130 Tips to Schedule Your College Life.” He was born in Arizona and graduated from Brigham Young University–Idaho with a degree in communication. Joel served a mission in the Peru Arequipa Mission from 2017 to 2019. He spends his free time playing Mario Kart and researching the etymologies of random words.
Premise 1. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.
Premise 2. The best evidence for the Book of Mormon is eyewitness testimony.
Conclusion. Therefore, the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is notoriously unreliable.
Philo Sofee
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Philo Sofee »

drumdude wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:43 am
I have a book written by Abraham Lincoln (dictated by me) who compiled a bunch of George Washington’s writings. It says so in my book so therefore it is true.

Who wants to pay me $60 million for it?
Sorry, I can only go to $59 million. Guess you will have to keep on looking.
Marcus
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Marcus »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 12:31 pm
drumdude wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:43 am
I have a book written by Abraham Lincoln (dictated by me) who compiled a bunch of George Washington’s writings. It says so in my book so therefore it is true.

Who wants to pay me $60 million for it?
Sorry, I can only go to $59 million. Guess you will have to keep on looking.
I bet if you write the check and then promise him it won't bounce, he'd give you the book. 8-)
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

He spends his free time playing Mario Kart and researching the etymologies of random words.
Lolol.

-_-

Lolololol

edit:

It’s just so damned absurd at this point. Lololol … these damned guys
Hiring a part-time news entertainment anchor as SecDef, what could go wrong?
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Rivendale
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Re: Provenance...of nonexistent "artifacts"???

Post by Rivendale »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:13 pm
He spends his free time playing Mario Kart and researching the etymologies of random words.
Lolol.

-_-

Lolololol

edit:

It’s just so damned absurd at this point. Lololol … these damned guys
Kli-flos-is-es must be really fun for him.
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