Dr. John Lundwall - the Book of Mormon is self refuting

[huckelberry]

I, with several tries,got all the way through the presentation. In some ways it covers pretty obvious stuff with perhaps a focus on a few points which do clarify emphasize. I had forgotten the statements in the Book of Morman describing a society with widespread literacy. I do remember the general sense that 19 century church culture and concepts were pervasive in the book. Those would be seriously anachronistic in most views. Lundwall focuses upon the story of human development of literacy and its effect on religion. He makes a couple interesting points how literacy encourages a doctrinal religion with individual relationship and abstract principals while older religion was more ritualistic relationship to natural patterns and powers behind those patterns.

The Mormon world views pictures a literate people back to Adam and continuing throughout the chosen blood line. The rest of the world fell away and devolved. There is no historical evidence of such a story.It is myth. The observations set up the importance of Lundwall's main point. A literate Book of Mormon community would leave traces identifying it as such. Society found in the new world is different. A literate society in the new world would have spread , the technology would persist.

I suppose an apologist might focus on that devolution of human society idea.I do not see the idea carrying the load however.

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On my first reading of the Book of Mormon I was struck and put off by the amount of American Protestantism in it. Well I got past that for a while but I remember that in time the effort to believe the book was real became something of a nightmare.

[yellowstone123]

If I remember correctly Laban was killed by the holy man with his own steel sword around Jerusalem, not Niagara Falls. Next the holy man begins using different voices something one would hear when listening to stories on audible.

[huckelberry]

If I remember correctly Laban was killed by the holy man with his own steel sword around Jerusalem, not Niagara Falls. Next the holy man begins using different voices something one would hear when listening to stories on audible.

I am sorry yellowstone but I have no idea what Laban has to do with Niagara falls. I am not following your thought it seems.

[yellowstone123]

To kill a top Mason was reportedly done by beheading. That’s what I heard a long time ago and there was an anti-mason party for a short time. Joseph was anti-mason, didn’t like the secret hand shakes, but like a new day, took a different stance a week later. Let’s call a truce and you win.

[Dr. Shades]

To kill a top Mason was reportedly done by beheading.

What did Laban have to do with Freemasonry?

[Everybody Wang Chung]

To kill a top Mason was reportedly done by beheading.

What did Laban have to do with Freemasonry?

Maybe Nephi was upset because Laban took him for granite?

[malkie]

To kill a top Mason was reportedly done by beheading.

What did Laban have to do with Freemasonry?

Is yellowstone123 implying that Laban had anything to do with Freemasonry?

I thought that he was just mentioning in passing something that he had heard (about how to kill a "top" mason), with discussion of the killing of Laban having triggered the memory.

[huckelberry]

I had not heard about a sword to kill top Masons so checked google. I saw that there was a traditional threatened penalty for revealing secrets of beheading by a steel sword. Perhaps that ideas was bouncing around in Joseph's awareness and inspired the strange story of Laban.

[malkie]

I had not heard about a sword to kill top Masons so checked google. I saw that there was a traditional threatened penalty for revealing secrets of beheading by a steel sword. Perhaps that ideas was bouncing around in Joseph's awareness and inspired the strange story of Laban.

OK - bear with me a moment: I think it's coming together!

Highlander has Scottish immortals.

Immortals can be killed only by chopping off their heads.

Scottish Rite is related to Masonry.

Joseph Smith was a Mason.

See - it's all starting to make sense now!

ETA: Cue Shades asking me (once more) if I've been drinking

[Everybody Wang Chung]

OK - bear with me a moment: I think it's coming together!

Highlander has Scottish immortals.

Immortals can be killed only by chopping off their heads.

Scottish Rite is related to Masonry.

Joseph Smith was a Mason.

See - it's all starting to make sense now!

ETA: Cue Shades asking me (once more) if I've been drinking

Malkie, the connections to the film Highlander get even deeper. I hope you're sitting down for this: