What Percentage Of TBMs Have Actually Read The Entire Book of Mormon?

[toon]

drumdude, a colorful suggestion you have here. Have you actually experienced such a thing? Horrendously foul and distasteful song. Ok you stirred my curiosity. What sort of song would qualify here?

I nominate Iron Man, Black Sabbath. back in the day I listened to radio music some and that would come on. I have not tried to listen to it over and over to discover if it improves.

Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefheart. It's currently ranked at number 60 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time list, and appears on the "best of" lists of most other music publications. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... rt-848521/

I absolutely hated every song on this album. Listening to it was pure torture. I guarantee if you listen to any of the songs for the first time, you will hate it so much you can't make yourself listen to the whole thing.

However, after being stuck in a car for 10 hours with a roommate driving to California who played this CD over and over, it finally started to grow on me. Now, I think it's brilliant, but I would never recommend it to anyone unless they were going to listen to the entire album about 10 times.

Here is the entire album if you are a glutton for punishment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF0g-2SeoMM

I was driving from Greenville, SC to Asheville, NC, the first time I listened to that album. A small group of friends and I were making our way through that 500 Greatest Albums list, five albums per week (we would meet for beers each Friday to discuss), and that was the week to listen to Trout Mask Replica. I remember getting so angry listening to it, where I was cussing and shouting while I was driving, and I was alone. I'm a huge Zappa fan, but this was just pretentious crap. And was so upset that I had to listen to what was a relatively long album.

Still, I wondered how it could have received so many reviews. That there must be something to it that I didn't see. On the other hand, I also wondered if this was just an emperor having no clothes. I later broke it down into pieces and then listened to it in its entirety. But I still can't see it. Maybe I'll revisit it sometime to see if I have a different experience or understanding of it. But as for now, it's still just crap.

That said, I don't think this album or modern classical music, which I can enjoy, is comparable to the Book of Mormon. With a lot of music or art, it's not so much that familiarity turns something that's simplistic and poor into something creative, meaningful, and complex. But it may be more that what can be creative, meaningful, and complex is often difficult to see at first glance.

[huckelberry]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or the Mormons, has 16.8 million members as of 2022, at least on paper. However, many people have never attended or stopped attending church many years ago. However, if we take the 16.8 million number and divide it by 30%, which is the average church attendance or active membership, we see 5 million. From that 5 million number, we further divide it by 20% to identify the number of average current Temple Recommend holders, the goal of dedicated Mormons; we then see 1 million. The attendance average of those still attending the Mormon temple regularly is about 50%, giving us the figure of 500,000. Of that number, experience tells me that 50% read and study the Book of Mormon religiously and seriously from beginning to end, and not selectively. For those not familiar with Mormon practices, it should be noted that scripture reading, if done at all, is mainly selected portions as chosen by self or church manuals, which do likewise. And so, we are left with 250,000 members, or 1.5%, who may be deemed extremely serious about reading the Book of Mormon.

This methodology is incredibly flawed. Plenty of inactive members may have read the book all the way through prior to going inactive (I myself am living proof), plus people without current temple recommends can read it all the way through just as easily as people with recommends.

Shades, like you I thought the article was trying way too hard to find a small percentage.

[huckelberry]

Horrendously foul and distasteful song. Ok you stirred my curiosity. What sort of song would qualify here?

The worst piece of music I've ever heard is this. (If it doesn't seem that bad to start with, wait about 40 seconds.) If I ever start to like it, shoot me.

Manetho, I tried to listen to your nomination for a bit. I see why you proposed it. Like Iron Man but the comparison makes me think a bit better of the old song. well a small bit.

[Res Ipsa]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or the Mormons, has 16.8 million members as of 2022, at least on paper. However, many people have never attended or stopped attending church many years ago. However, if we take the 16.8 million number and divide it by 30%, which is the average church attendance or active membership, we see 5 million. From that 5 million number, we further divide it by 20% to identify the number of average current Temple Recommend holders, the goal of dedicated Mormons; we then see 1 million. The attendance average of those still attending the Mormon temple regularly is about 50%, giving us the figure of 500,000. Of that number, experience tells me that 50% read and study the Book of Mormon religiously and seriously from beginning to end, and not selectively. For those not familiar with Mormon practices, it should be noted that scripture reading, if done at all, is mainly selected portions as chosen by self or church manuals, which do likewise. And so, we are left with 250,000 members, or 1.5%, who may be deemed extremely serious about reading the Book of Mormon.

This methodology is incredibly flawed. Plenty of inactive members may have read the book all the way through prior to going inactive (I myself am living proof), plus people without current temple recommends can read it all the way through just as easily as people with recommends.

You're too kind, boss. The approximation the author makes does not contradict at all what the Pew Survey says about the frequency with which self-identified LDS folks read the scriptures (including the Book of Mormon.) Like you, I'm a good counterexample, as is one of my Nevermo kids, who read it out of curiosity.

[huckelberry]

drumdude, a colorful suggestion you have here. Have you actually experienced such a thing? Horrendously foul and distasteful song. Ok you stirred my curiosity. What sort of song would qualify here?

I nominate Iron Man, Black Sabbath. back in the day I listened to radio music some and that would come on. I have not tried to listen to it over and over to discover if it improves.

It’s all subjective of course, but a lot of contemporary classical music falls into this category for me. The kind that eschews conventional melody, harmony, and/or rhythm. Abstract art kind of music.

You can find it utterly repulsive on the first listening, and then slowly over time find things to latch on to for each subsequent one.

I found the Book of Mormon pretty repulsive on my first reading too. But if you take isolated passages on their own and forget the sum total of the book it can be bearable.

Drumdude, You have interesting observations here. Material in the Book of Mormon seems to come with a lot of packing added.

I have not followed classical music of the past fifty years but perhaps examples from first half of the last century are close enough that I can see what you are thinking of.

[huckelberry]

Everybody wang Chung, Your music nomination is interesting. I am having trouble remembering if I have listened to that album or not. I am not really a Zappa fan but do on occasion listen to some of his music. In connection with Zappa I remember reading about this album.

Later I will give your link a listen and see if it jogs my memory (or if I can enjoy, tolerate, listening to it).

[malkie]

This methodology is incredibly flawed. Plenty of inactive members may have read the book all the way through prior to going inactive (I myself am living proof), plus people without current temple recommends can read it all the way through just as easily as people with recommends.

Shades, like you I thought the article was trying way too hard to find a small percentage.

It really cries out for the Rasmussen methodology - that way they could get to 10^-18%, rather than the unrealistic 1.5%

[Philo Sofee]

Shades, like you I thought the article was trying way too hard to find a small percentage.

It really cries out for the Rasmussen methodology - that way they could get to 10^-18%, rather than the unrealistic 1.5%

[Physics Guy]

10^-18% could be interpreted as 10^(-0.18), which is close to two-thirds.

Okay, the only use I can see for that arithmetical fact is to troll people by engaging in a long argument about seemingly very low probabilities and then revealing, after everyone is thoroughly exasperated, that no strong claims were ever made. No-one should do that.

[malkie]

10^-18% could be interpreted as 10^(-0.18), which is close to two-thirds.

Okay, the only use I can see for that arithmetical fact is to troll people by engaging in a long argument about seemingly very low probabilities and then revealing, after everyone is thoroughly exasperated, that no strong claims were ever made. No-one should do that.

You're right, of course - it could be. I should have been more careful.

I'd hoped that the Rasmussen reference would be understood.