Anderson's Venezuela bakery story...as a lever to get you to pay tithing

[MG 2.0]

[Jesus] was particularly harsh on the accumulation of wealth.

Selfish accumulating of wealth. He was clear as to what ought to be done if one has means to spare.

And I don’t know of any teachings of Jesus that would dissuade from saving for a rainy day.

It’s also of interest to note that in his day the resources needed to maintain the community of believers was on different scale than what might be considered to maintain and grow a worldwide church.

Especially when one considers the building of temples, meetinghouses, schools, and the support system needed to preach the gospel throughout the earth.

Money is the means to an end, not the end in and of itself.

I realize your views may vary on this point. That’s fine. I think I can understand why you might feel the way you do.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I don’t begrudge you at all for not paying tithing to the CofJCofLDS. I wholeheartedly support you in your decision. It wouldn’t make any sense for you to do so.

And thank you for making it clear that you do not begrudge any member of the church, rich or poor, for paying an honest tithe.

Regards,
MG

Do I really have to explain what I said as if I were talking to a toddler?

No. I understood you.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

[Jesus] was particularly harsh on the accumulation of wealth.

Selfish accumulating of wealth. He was clear as to what ought to be done if one has means to spare.

And I don’t know of any teachings of Jesus that would dissuade from saving for a rainy day.

It’s also of interest to note that in his day the resources needed to maintain the community of believers was on different scale than what might be considered to maintain and grow a worldwide church.

Especially when one considers the building of temples, meetinghouses, schools, and the support system needed to preach the gospel throughout the earth.

Money is the means to an end, not the end in and of itself.

I realize your views may vary on this point. That’s fine. I think I can understand why you might feel the way you do.

Regards,
MG

Maybe you should reread the part about the lilies of the field. Or about not laying up earthly treasures. Funny how much time you have to spend inventing excuses for the contradictions between the teachings of Jesus and the religion you choose to believe.

[MG 2.0]

Selfish accumulating of wealth. He was clear as to what ought to be done if one has means to spare.

And I don’t know of any teachings of Jesus that would dissuade from saving for a rainy day.

It’s also of interest to note that in his day the resources needed to maintain the community of believers was on different scale than what might be considered to maintain and grow a worldwide church.

Especially when one considers the building of temples, meetinghouses, schools, and the support system needed to preach the gospel throughout the earth.

Money is the means to an end, not the end in and of itself.

I realize your views may vary on this point. That’s fine. I think I can understand why you might feel the way you do.

Regards,
MG

Maybe you should reread the part about the lilies of the field. Or about not laying up earthly treasures. Funny how much time you have to spend inventing excuses for the contradictions between the teachings of Jesus and the religion you choose to believe.

I’ve read Jesus’s teachings in regards to not seeking the material at the expense of taking care of the poor and/or our own spiritual well being. As it is, I believe many have lost their way in this respect.

You might agree with me on that point.

I don’t see contradictions in Jesus’s teachings in the same way you do.

But I think I might understand why some folks would choose to concentrate on what they believe to be contradictions.

I am happy to see that you do not begrudge or place judgement on those members of the church that choose to pay an honest tithe.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

Maybe you should reread the part about the lilies of the field. Or about not laying up earthly treasures. Funny how much time you have to spend inventing excuses for the contradictions between the teachings of Jesus and the religion you choose to believe.

I’ve read Jesus’s teachings in regards to not seeking the material at the expense of taking care of the poor and/or our own spiritual well being. As it is, I believe many have lost their way in this respect.

You might agree with me on that point.

I don’t see contradictions in Jesus’s teachings in the same way you do.

But I think I might understand why some folks would choose to concentrate on what they believe to be contradictions.

I am happy to see that you do not begrudge or place judgement on those members of the church that choose to pay an honest tithe.

Regards,
MG

Please cite to me where Jesus qualifies his teachings about seeking worldly wealth with "at the expense of the poor" or "our own spiritual well being." Where does he say anything like "it's cool to seek after earthly treasure as long as it isn't at the expense of the poor or your own personal well being."

I can't agree with any proposition that is based, not on what the Bible quotes Jesus as saying, but on your qualifications of what he said.

Why are you claiming this has to do with me seeing "contradictions in Jesus's teachings?" I never made any such claim. I think that the teachings of Jesus are clear on this subject: give your wealth to the poor, stop seeking earthly treasures, and follow me. The contradictions I reference are between what the church you choose to believe in says and does and what Jesus taught.

Oh, Jesus was also death on religious hypocrites. It seems he is one of your folks who choose to concentrate on what they believe to be contradictions.

I don't understand why you keep repeating that last sentence. I don't begrudge or judge church members who choose to pay and "honest tithe," a "dishonest tithe," or no tithe at all. I reserve my judgment for organizations who claim to be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ on the face of the earth and, at the same time, accumulate enormous wealth and go to extreme measures (including breaking laws) to conceal that fact from their members. Whose appointed representatives tell impoverished folks that "we are not a wealthy people" when, in fact, they are. That accept gold fillings from the impoverished instead of fixing their teeth.

I think the Jesus described in the Bible would be on my side on this issue. Not so much on the whole existence of God thing.

[Philo Sofee]

MG2.0
I’ve read Jesus’s teachings in regards to not seeking the material at the expense of taking care of the poor and/or our own spiritual well being. As it is, I believe many have lost their way in this respect.

Yes, the church's expanded leadership and bureaucracy and all the area presidents, stake presidents and bishops certainly have done so.... it's so sad.

[Philo Sofee]

Res Ipsa
Why are you claiming this has to do with me seeing "contradictions in Jesus's teachings?" I never made any such claim. I think that the teachings of Jesus are clear on this subject: give your wealth to the poor, stop seeking earthly treasures, and follow me. The contradictions I reference are between what the church you choose to believe in says and does and what Jesus taught.

MG2.0 knows all that. We all realize he is terrified of actually accepting and doing what Jesus said when his church says and does otherwise and threatens him with a lesser heaven than them.

[MG 2.0]

I’ve read Jesus’s teachings in regards to not seeking the material at the expense of taking care of the poor and/or our own spiritual well being. As it is, I believe many have lost their way in this respect.

You might agree with me on that point.

I don’t see contradictions in Jesus’s teachings in the same way you do.

But I think I might understand why some folks would choose to concentrate on what they believe to be contradictions.

I am happy to see that you do not begrudge or place judgement on those members of the church that choose to pay an honest tithe.

Regards,
MG

Please cite to me where Jesus qualifies his teachings about seeking worldly wealth with "at the expense of the poor" or "our own spiritual well being." Where does he say anything like "it's cool to seek after earthly treasure as long as it isn't at the expense of the poor or your own personal well being."

I can't agree with any proposition that is based, not on what the Bible quotes Jesus as saying, but on your qualifications of what he said.

Why are you claiming this has to do with me seeing "contradictions in Jesus's teachings?" I never made any such claim. I think that the teachings of Jesus are clear on this subject: give your wealth to the poor, stop seeking earthly treasures, and follow me. The contradictions I reference are between what the church you choose to believe in says and does and what Jesus taught.

Oh, Jesus was also death on religious hypocrites. It seems he is one of your folks who choose to concentrate on what they believe to be contradictions.

I don't understand why you keep repeating that last sentence. I don't begrudge or judge church members who choose to pay and "honest tithe," a "dishonest tithe," or no tithe at all. I reserve my judgment for organizations who claim to be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ on the face of the earth and, at the same time, accumulate enormous wealth and go to extreme measures (including breaking laws) to conceal that fact from their members. Whose appointed representatives tell impoverished folks that "we are not a wealthy people" when, in fact, they are. That accept gold fillings from the impoverished instead of fixing their teeth.

I think the Jesus described in the Bible would be on my side on this issue. Not so much on the whole existence of God thing.

I’m not going to scripture chase with you, Res Ipsa.

Use your common sense. Many of us accumulate worldly goods. Don’t tell me that this hasn’t been a major focus in your own life. So we accumulate goods and money. What do we do with our resources? That is what matters. Jesus would condemn those that are selfish with the goods that they accumulate. But I would tend to think he didn’t go around and teach people to be unproductive and shun the accumulation of wealth.

If you want to think otherwise by cherry picking Jesus’s teachings in the New Testament, that’s your prerogative.

This stuff about the church accumulating too much wealth is something that gives critics something else to bellyache about.

So keep up your bellyaching! But don’t forget to take your TUMS.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

Please cite to me where Jesus qualifies his teachings about seeking worldly wealth with "at the expense of the poor" or "our own spiritual well being." Where does he say anything like "it's cool to seek after earthly treasure as long as it isn't at the expense of the poor or your own personal well being."

I can't agree with any proposition that is based, not on what the Bible quotes Jesus as saying, but on your qualifications of what he said.

Why are you claiming this has to do with me seeing "contradictions in Jesus's teachings?" I never made any such claim. I think that the teachings of Jesus are clear on this subject: give your wealth to the poor, stop seeking earthly treasures, and follow me. The contradictions I reference are between what the church you choose to believe in says and does and what Jesus taught.

Oh, Jesus was also death on religious hypocrites. It seems he is one of your folks who choose to concentrate on what they believe to be contradictions.

I don't understand why you keep repeating that last sentence. I don't begrudge or judge church members who choose to pay and "honest tithe," a "dishonest tithe," or no tithe at all. I reserve my judgment for organizations who claim to be the one and only true church of Jesus Christ on the face of the earth and, at the same time, accumulate enormous wealth and go to extreme measures (including breaking laws) to conceal that fact from their members. Whose appointed representatives tell impoverished folks that "we are not a wealthy people" when, in fact, they are. That accept gold fillings from the impoverished instead of fixing their teeth.

I think the Jesus described in the Bible would be on my side on this issue. Not so much on the whole existence of God thing.

I’m not going to scripture chase with you, Res Ipsa.

Use your common sense. Many of us accumulate worldly goods. Don’t tell me that this hasn’t been a major focus in your own life. So we accumulate goods and money. What do we do with our resources? That is what matters. Jesus would condemn those that are selfish with the goods that they accumulate. But I would tend to think he didn’t go around and teach people to be unproductive and shun the accumulation of wealth.

If you want to think otherwise by cherry picking Jesus’s teachings in the New Testament, that’s your prerogative.

This stuff about the church accumulating too much wealth is something that gives critics something else to bellyache about.

So keep up your bellyaching! But don’t forget to take your TUMS.

Regards,
MG

Well, of course you aren't going to "scripture chase." There's no scripture for you to chase. That's my point. Thanks for helping me make it.

But now you're off on your usual ad homs and red herrings.

[MG 2.0]

I’m not going to scripture chase with you, Res Ipsa.

Use your common sense. Many of us accumulate worldly goods. Don’t tell me that this hasn’t been a major focus in your own life. So we accumulate goods and money. What do we do with our resources? That is what matters. Jesus would condemn those that are selfish with the goods that they accumulate. But I would tend to think he didn’t go around and teach people to be unproductive and shun the accumulation of wealth.

If you want to think otherwise by cherry picking Jesus’s teachings in the New Testament, that’s your prerogative.

This stuff about the church accumulating too much wealth is something that gives critics something else to bellyache about.

So keep up your bellyaching! But don’t forget to take your TUMS.

Regards,
MG

Well, of course you aren't going to "scripture chase." There's no scripture for you to chase. That's my point. Thanks for helping me make it.

But now you're off on your usual ad homs and red herrings.

Heavens to Betsy you are a sensitive soul.

Asking you to use your own common sense is just a bit too much to ask, huh?

Regards,
MG