Peterson advocates for bombing Gaza, even if it means civilian casualties

[huckelberry]

I have a Question,

Because you have rushed to judgement in this you sound as if in observing two wrongs do not make a right you are thinking that in response to bombing of Pearl Harbor the US should have sent roses to Japan and promised to stay out of their way (with a request to please play nice).

You've projected a lot into what I actually said there huckleberry. I've not mentioned Pearl Harbour, nor Roses, nor Playing nice. My point is this - Gaza is being turned into a ghetto for all those innocent Palestinians. I would have thought that of all nations, Israel would not want to inflict that upon another people. Bombing the crap out of an innocent population, cutting off their water and their energy, serves only to make the wrong people suffer. What Hamas did to innocent Israelis is wrong and should be condemned. What Israel is doing to innocent Palestinians is wrong, and should be condemned. Two wrongs do not make a right.

You are likely correct that Hamas wanted to provoke Israel, "make us into martyrs." I do not think the observation solves the problem of how to proceed.

I think there's wider geopolitics at play here. Iran supplies circa 75% of the funding and weaponry for Hamas. Why? Well, more astute observers than I have pointed out that the Middle East has been gradually moving closer to stabilisation. That does not suit Iran, because they aren't part of it and are perhaps feeling isolated. So they prompt their puppet army Hamas, into an act they they hope will take things back to being destabilised. I guess that's to Iran's advantage in ways that economic and geopolitical analysts will undoubtedly be reporting in their analysis of this conflict.

In terms of how to proceed, well that's someone else's responsibility. I'm simply a nobody on a message board that thinks innocent people suffering because of others wrongdoing, is something that should be avoided. Peterson disagrees and thinks the deaths of innocents is acceptable collateral damage - which is an unchristian stance to take, and it doesn’t reflect his Prophet’s position on the conflict.

I have a question, I think you are looking at important things which need to be considered.Israel is in serious danger of making a bad situation worse and setting up forces, reaction and revenge for its actions, which could accumulate to Israels destruction in the future.

I mentioned Pearl Harbor not because you mentioned it but because i thought it might be worth considering as having some parallels. Well there are a good number of differences but it still involves the question of how does a country respond to an attack killing its citizens and threatening further violence.

As we all know the US response ended up killing a huge number of innocent civilians. War does that.

[MG 2.0]

I'm simply a nobody on a message board that thinks innocent people suffering because of others wrongdoing, is something that should be avoided. Peterson disagrees and thinks the deaths of innocents is acceptable collateral damage - which is an unchristian stance to take, and it doesn’t reflect his Prophet’s position on the conflict.

I think it may be a bit more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. You’re making out a lot of good Christian people in our world that have had to make hard choices into something other than what they are.

Christian.

Playing holier than thou, are we?

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I'm simply a nobody on a message board that thinks innocent people suffering because of others wrongdoing, is something that should be avoided. Peterson disagrees and thinks the deaths of innocents is acceptable collateral damage - which is an unchristian stance to take, and it doesn’t reflect his Prophet’s position on the conflict.

I think it may be a bit more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. You’re making out a lot of good Christian people in our world that have had to make hard choices into something other than what they are.

Christian.

Playing holier than thou, are we?

Regards,
MG

It’s very simple, anyone that makes a decision that they know, or strongly suspect, will cause deaths of innocent men, women, and children, is not a good Christian. Being a good Christian, and causing deaths of innocents, are mutually exclusive positions. Currently a child is dying in Gaza every 10 minutes. I’m glad I won’t be the one trying to justify that on Judgement Day.

I also think Israel is doing more damage to itself by pursuing this action, than it’s doing to Hamas. Any sympathy that the world felt for Israel over the recent Hamas terrorist attack, has been vastly diminished. Israel has killed exponentially more innocent people in Gaza than Hamas did in the terror attack. In the last month Israel has killed more than three times the number of innocent people that were lost in 9/11.

[Kishkumen]

It’s very simple, anyone that makes a decision that they know, or strongly suspect, will cause deaths of innocent men, women, and children, is not a good Christian. Being a good Christian, and causing deaths of innocents, are mutually exclusive positions. Currently a child is dying in Gaza every 10 minutes. I’m glad I won’t be the one trying to justify that on Judgement Day.

I also think Israel is doing more damage to itself by pursuing this action, than it’s doing to Hamas. Any sympathy that the world felt for Israel over the recent Hamas terrorist attack, has been vastly diminished. Israel has killed exponentially more innocent people in Gaza than Hamas did in the terror attack. In the last month Israel has killed more than three times the number of innocent people that were lost in 9/11.

An aggressive regime looks at the sympathy of others in the world as an opening to pursue its agenda, not as solace in a time of grieving. The innocent citizens are right to feel comforted, but the leaders are rubbing their hands together to have a chance to do what they wanted to do all along. I love the people of Israel. Netanyahu is a wannabe authoritarian leader.

[Res Ipsa]

I think it may be a bit more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. You’re making out a lot of good Christian people in our world that have had to make hard choices into something other than what they are.

Christian.

Playing holier than thou, are we?

Regards,
MG

It’s very simple, anyone that makes a decision that they know, or strongly suspect, will cause deaths of innocent men, women, and children, is not a good Christian. Being a good Christian, and causing deaths of innocents, are mutually exclusive positions. Currently a child is dying in Gaza every 10 minutes. I’m glad I won’t be the one trying to justify that on Judgement Day.

I also think Israel is doing more damage to itself by pursuing this action, than it’s doing to Hamas. Any sympathy that the world felt for Israel over the recent Hamas terrorist attack, has been vastly diminished. Israel has killed exponentially more innocent people in Gaza than Hamas did in the terror attack. In the last month Israel has killed more than three times the number of innocent people that were lost in 9/11.

Is it really that simple? Leaving aside the fact that neither Hamas nor the Israeli government appear to care much about qualifying as a good Christian, are everyone who participated in the planning and execution of the firebombing of Dresden "bad Christians?" Is everyone who was involved in the war on ISIS a bad Christian?

Does "making a decision" include deciding not to act? If Isreal had decided that it was impossible to respond to the Hamas attack without causing the death or deaths of innocent people, would they qualify as "good Christians?" Even if the result was to strengthen Hamas, enabling it to kill more and more innocent people? Do the citizens of Israel have a duty to abandon the country so as to avoid causing the death of a single innocent person?

I don't think it's simple at all. How to respond to terrorism is a "wicked problem," as many modern terror groups are embedded into civilian populations. And those groups don't give a rat's ass about being good Christians.

What must a Good Christian national leader do when the people of his nation are attacked by terrorists?

[MG 2.0]

I think it may be a bit more nuanced than you’re making it out to be. You’re making out a lot of good Christian people in our world that have had to make hard choices into something other than what they are.

Christian.

Playing holier than thou, are we?

Regards,
MG

It’s very simple, anyone that makes a decision that they know, or strongly suspect, will cause deaths of innocent men, women, and children, is not a good Christian. Being a good Christian, and causing deaths of innocents, are mutually exclusive positions. Currently a child is dying in Gaza every 10 minutes. I’m glad I won’t be the one trying to justify that on Judgement Day.

I also think Israel is doing more damage to itself by pursuing this action, than it’s doing to Hamas. Any sympathy that the world felt for Israel over the recent Hamas terrorist attack, has been vastly diminished. Israel has killed exponentially more innocent people in Gaza than Hamas did in the terror attack. In the last month Israel has killed more than three times the number of innocent people that were lost in 9/11.

I’m no fan of Hillary Clinton but she has recently come out and said that Hamas needs to be completely dismantled. That will not happen without bloodshed unfortunately.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor Steuss]

I’m no fan of Hillary Clinton but she has recently come out and said that Hamas needs to be completely dismantled. That will not happen without bloodshed unfortunately.

Regards,
MG

This doesn't absolve an overwhelmingly dominant occupying military power from making the calculated decision that the lives of children are substantially less important than the lives of soldiers.

Murdering children doesn't become morally superior when it's done with explosives instead of swords.

Incidentally, in this dismantling of Hamas, how many Hamas leaders have been killed in relation to how many children have been killed? What's the acceptable ratio of murdered children to eliminated Hamas terrorists? 100 Palestinian children to every member of Hamas? 1,000 Palestinian children to every member of Hamas?

How many lives of children would you be willing to trade in exchange for a member of ISIS? How many lives of children would you be willing to trade for a 9/11 mastermind? If it meant saving the lives of soldiers, would the number of children you'd be willing to sacrifice change? If it was American children rather than Palestinian children, would that change the number you'd be willing to sacrifice?

You don't need to answer these questions (they're meant to be rhetorical, and reflective), but that's essentially what is happening right now. Dead children in exchange for dead Hamas, in order to not jeopardize the lives of soldiers.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

[I Have Questions]

It’s very simple, anyone that makes a decision that they know, or strongly suspect, will cause deaths of innocent men, women, and children, is not a good Christian. Being a good Christian, and causing deaths of innocents, are mutually exclusive positions. Currently a child is dying in Gaza every 10 minutes. I’m glad I won’t be the one trying to justify that on Judgement Day.

I also think Israel is doing more damage to itself by pursuing this action, than it’s doing to Hamas. Any sympathy that the world felt for Israel over the recent Hamas terrorist attack, has been vastly diminished. Israel has killed exponentially more innocent people in Gaza than Hamas did in the terror attack. In the last month Israel has killed more than three times the number of innocent people that were lost in 9/11.

Is it really that simple? Leaving aside the fact that neither Hamas nor the Israeli government appear to care much about qualifying as a good Christian, are everyone who participated in the planning and execution of the firebombing of Dresden "bad Christians?" Is everyone who was involved in the war on ISIS a bad Christian?

Does "making a decision" include deciding not to act? If Isreal had decided that it was impossible to respond to the Hamas attack without causing the death or deaths of innocent people, would they qualify as "good Christians?" Even if the result was to strengthen Hamas, enabling it to kill more and more innocent people? Do the citizens of Israel have a duty to abandon the country so as to avoid causing the death of a single innocent person?

I don't think it's simple at all. How to respond to terrorism is a "wicked problem," as many modern terror groups are embedded into civilian populations. And those groups don't give a rat's ass about being good Christians.

What must a Good Christian national leader do when the people of his nation are attacked by terrorists?

I agree it’s not a simple thing for a nation’s leadership to decide how to respond to terror attacks etc. But the criteria for being a Good Christian is (in my opinion) quite simple. It’s acting in a manner that Christ would act. I don’t believe Christ would advocate for bombing Gaza when there’s a high probability of innocent casualties, including children. Therefore, anyone taking that decision, or putting forward the idea that it’s necessary fails my arbitrary “Good Christian” test.