If Trump WAS Sent by God...

[msnobody]

Why should an evangelical move away from the term? I for one would not.

Msnobody, thinking of the word as meaning spreading sharing and showing the good news of the gospel of Jesus it is certainly a good thing.

Consider what Jersey Girl posted, to view a person against Trump as not Christian is a gross distortion of the faith.

I think the influence of Trump has magnified corrupt and distorted tendencies in Christian communities. These tendancies, enjoying lies for power, exist in all human communities, original sin, but some leaders magnify the sin and give people permission to enjoy it.

Hot button topics, religion and politics, yet here we are on a religious discussion board discussing politics.

I personally do not know if Donald Trump is a Christian or not. I will just say that each person is accountable to God for his or her own sin, and whom among us does not try to evade or shift the responsibility for our own sins, either onto another person or onto God (ie The woman you gave me...")?

There is a lot to unpack in the video Jersey linked, and I'm not going there tonight, if at all.

With regard to Mr. Nelson's lyrics, it appears to me that he has a disdain for God. If God chose any of us, wouldn't it be from the "defect shelf," or better yet, from the reprobate shelf? After all, "Such as were some of you."

Much of the evangelical community is theologically and biblically illiterate. Who do we have to blame but ourselves (evangelicals)? Hence my recent indictment of the evangelical church in general within my own circles (a story for another day). Sure, we as Christians, should desire to place someone in office who best represents biblical values, and when that doesn't happen, we should remember Romans 13:1-2, which states, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Good night, my DM besties.

[Jersey Girl]

This. Right. Here.

Much of the evangelical community is theologically and biblically illiterate. Who do we have to blame but ourselves (evangelicals)? Hence my recent indictment of the evangelical church in general within my own circles (a story for another day). Sure, we as Christians, should desire to place someone in office who best represents biblical values, and when that doesn't happen, we should remember Romans 13:1-2, which states, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Good night, my DM besties.

And specfically the theologically and biblically illiterate part.

[honorentheos]

It's difficult to know what biblical literacy or biblical values mean in a vacuum. Are Jehovah's Witnesses biblically illiterate for having a largely ahistorical perspective on the meaning of the texts compared to Catholics? Is a person biblically illiterate who reads the four canonical gospels with an assumption the authors actually knew the main character in the stories they contain? Is the Bible for or against equal treatment of women?

It's valuable to recognize that everything in the above presupposes a particular worldview.

[huckelberry]

Msnobody, thinking of the word as meaning spreading sharing and showing the good news of the gospel of Jesus it is certainly a good thing.

Consider what Jersey Girl posted, to view a person against Trump as not Christian is a gross distortion of the faith.

I think the influence of Trump has magnified corrupt and distorted tendencies in Christian communities. These tendancies, enjoying lies for power, exist in all human communities, original sin, but some leaders magnify the sin and give people permission to enjoy it.

Hot button topics, religion and politics, yet here we are on a religious discussion board discussing politics.

I personally do not know if Donald Trump is a Christian or not. I will just say that each person is accountable to God for his or her own sin, and whom among us does not try to evade or shift the responsibility for our own sins, either onto another person or onto God (ie The woman you gave me...")?

There is a lot to unpack in the video Jersey linked, and I'm not going there tonight, if at all.

With regard to Mr. Nelson's lyrics, it appears to me that he has a disdain for God. If God chose any of us, wouldn't it be from the "defect shelf," or better yet, from the reprobate shelf? After all, "Such as were some of you."

Much of the evangelical community is theologically and biblically illiterate. Who do we have to blame but ourselves (evangelicals)? Hence my recent indictment of the evangelical church in general within my own circles (a story for another day). Sure, we as Christians, should desire to place someone in office who best represents biblical values, and when that doesn't happen, we should remember Romans 13:1-2, which states, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Good night, my DM besties.

Msnobody, I certainly have no interest or authority to judge whether Mr. Trump is a Christian. I certainly have no authority to go between him and God concerning forgiveness of sins. Yes we all come short but that does not excuse us from our obligation to use our best judgement in choosing whom we vote for.

I think the statements in Romans 13 contain important truths. In any society there are multiple authorities in different important roles. In the United States all authorities are under the authority of the constitution and laws passed by authorities. The president, congress, courts, voters, states, etc. all have authority and must work together.

Trump, when loosing reelection, trampled on and abused the governing authorities showing that he is a danger to the nation. He has encouraged people to reject the authorities that they should be respecting.

[Jersey Girl]

It's valuable to recognize that everything in the above presupposes a particular worldview.

Because it fits with the topic.

[Gadianton]

I'll point out again that Trump is a negative hero to Evangelicals. There is nothing to be uncovered that will show them, "see? how can you think of this guy as holy?"

They know that. It's the point. He's the "avenging angel". He's the outsider not bound by their conventions.

But, I will say this, Trump is staying in the game by sheer momentum. I don't think that Trump supporters have increased in their devotion. I think he may even be exhausting many of his own people. Trumpism isn't new anymore. Americans get bored easy. It's only the dullest of the dull, mentally broken people who are still doing cartwheels over Trump.

My biggest takeaway from the Pandemic was just how powerful the idea of momentum is, in great opposition to what I'd always believed. I'd never considered that I might be stocking up on TP because everyone thinks that everyone else is going to be irrational and stock up on TP. Trump has the persistent support overall because everyone thinks everyone else is going to vote for him so they have to vote for him.

CNN is stupid. All these articles coming out saying that Haley and DeSantis are breaking in some ways with the far-right playbook is foot shooting. They need to be saying how scared they are that Haley might win, and poses a much bigger threat to democracy than Trump ever could. Instead, they come up with trash like, "Are we Jan 6 or Jan 20?" (when America came together for "change" under Obama) How do they think Conservatives will react to stuff like that? Maybe CNN wants Trump to win. The bet would be -- a small chance he'd wield enough power to destroy CNN and a large chance they'd continue to rake in the cash having him on their headlines constantly.

[honorentheos]

It's valuable to recognize that everything in the above presupposes a particular worldview.

Because it fits with the topic.

I see the benefit being to the person making choices based on this worldview. It's difficult to imagine a person being a representative of God's will as communicated through a particular interpretation of the Bible when one acknowledges that is subjective. It stops being a case of a person representing biblical values and instead becomes a person representing a particular community's values. Nuanced? Yeah, the kind that tempers certitude and makes room for individual moral reasoning based on consequences to others. The kind that makes the person deciding to select that person to represent them acknowledge it's representing THEM and not a distant other that might allow that person to buffer themselves from the choice.

[honorentheos]

I'll point out again that Trump is a negative hero to Evangelicals. There is nothing to be uncovered that will show them, "see? how can you think of this guy as holy?"

They know that. It's the point. He's the "avenging angel". He's the outsider not bound by their conventions.

But, I will say this, Trump is staying in the game by sheer momentum. I don't think that Trump supporters have increased in their devotion. I think he may even be exhausting many of his own people. Trumpism isn't new anymore. Americans get bored easy. It's only the dullest of the dull, mentally broken people who are still doing cartwheels over Trump.

My biggest takeaway from the Pandemic was just how powerful the idea of momentum is, in great opposition to what I'd always believed. I'd never considered that I might be stocking up on TP because everyone thinks that everyone else is going to be irrational and stock up on TP. Trump has the persistent support overall because everyone thinks everyone else is going to vote for him so they have to vote for him.

CNN is stupid. All these articles coming out saying that Haley and DeSantis are breaking in some ways with the far-right playbook is foot shooting. They need to be saying how scared they are that Haley might win, and poses a much bigger threat to democracy than Trump ever could. Instead, they come up with trash like, "Are we Jan 6 or Jan 20?" (when America came together for "change" under Obama) How do they think Conservatives will react to stuff like that? Maybe CNN wants Trump to win. The bet would be -- a small chance he'd wield enough power to destroy CNN and a large chance they'd continue to rake in the cash having him on their headlines constantly.

Sadly, I think the issue you point out with CNN is the result of the same thinking that left people shocked when Trump won in 2016. That being the inability to recognize other people with different experiences and views from their own are justified in their thinking, at least in so far as they judge it, rather than doing so out of nefarious motives. It's hard for true believers of any kind to negotiate or engage in actual politics. Everything is a zero sum battle between what is right on one hand and evil on the other.

[huckelberry]

I'll point out again that Trump is a negative hero to Evangelicals. There is nothing to be uncovered that will show them, "see? how can you think of this guy as holy?"

They know that. It's the point. He's the "avenging angel". He's the outsider not bound by their conventions.

But, I will say this, Trump is staying in the game by sheer momentum. I don't think that Trump supporters have increased in their devotion. I think he may even be exhausting many of his own people. Trumpism isn't new anymore. Americans get bored easy. It's only the dullest of the dull, mentally broken people who are still doing cartwheels over Trump.

My biggest takeaway from the Pandemic was just how powerful the idea of momentum is, in great opposition to what I'd always believed. I'd never considered that I might be stocking up on TP because everyone thinks that everyone else is going to be irrational and stock up on TP. Trump has the persistent support overall because everyone thinks everyone else is going to vote for him so they have to vote for him.

CNN is stupid. All these articles coming out saying that Haley and DeSantis are breaking in some ways with the far-right playbook is foot shooting. They need to be saying how scared they are that Haley might win, and poses a much bigger threat to democracy than Trump ever could. Instead, they come up with trash like, "Are we Jan 6 or Jan 20?" (when America came together for "change" under Obama) How do they think Conservatives will react to stuff like that? Maybe CNN wants Trump to win. The bet would be -- a small chance he'd wield enough power to destroy CNN and a large chance they'd continue to rake in the cash having him on their headlines constantly.

Gadianton, Perhaps I am correct to decide you mean Haley should be called a bigger threat not because there is actual reason to think so (I am not supporting her but I am unaware of such danger), but to create new enthusiasm redirecting some Trump voters.

I figure focus on Trump is news time relatively inexpensive to produce and collecting viewers. It probably increases his popularity some so I hope you are correct in thinking that his momentum has peaked or is near to that. I am not sure. His pied piper bad boy routine has power and as you point out is not discouraged by pointing out how he is a bad boy.

[msnobody]

Hot button topics, religion and politics, yet here we are on a religious discussion board discussing politics.

I personally do not know if Donald Trump is a Christian or not. I will just say that each person is accountable to God for his or her own sin, and whom among us does not try to evade or shift the responsibility for our own sins, either onto another person or onto God (ie The woman you gave me...")?

There is a lot to unpack in the video Jersey linked, and I'm not going there tonight, if at all.

With regard to Mr. Nelson's lyrics, it appears to me that he has a disdain for God. If God chose any of us, wouldn't it be from the "defect shelf," or better yet, from the reprobate shelf? After all, "Such as were some of you."

Much of the evangelical community is theologically and biblically illiterate. Who do we have to blame but ourselves (evangelicals)? Hence my recent indictment of the evangelical church in general within my own circles (a story for another day). Sure, we as Christians, should desire to place someone in office who best represents biblical values, and when that doesn't happen, we should remember Romans 13:1-2, which states, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Good night, my DM besties.

Msnobody, I certainly have no interest or authority to judge whether Mr. Trump is a Christian. I certainly have no authority to go between him and God concerning forgiveness of sins. Yes we all come short but that does not excuse us from our obligation to use our best judgement in choosing whom we vote for.

I think the statements in Romans 13 contain important truths. In any society there are multiple authorities in different important roles. In the United States all authorities are under the authority of the constitution and laws passed by authorities. The president, congress, courts, voters, states, etc. all have authority and must work together.

Trump, when loosing reelection, trampled on and abused the governing authorities showing that he is a danger to the nation. He has encouraged people to reject the authorities that they should be respecting.

I don’t have as many problems with Trump as a lot of other posters here have, yet I’m pretty sure that some, here or elsewhere, who are vehemently opposed to Trump would kneejerkingly assign me to some negative supposed evangelical Trumpism camp or something. If that is the case, so be it. I do not and will not assign that to myself, nor be bothered by it.

Having lived all of my life in the Southeast, I saw great benefit within the African American community here during Trump’s presidency. Benefit that I have never seen in 50-ish+ years. I, strikingly, have seen what has been in my lifetime an oppressed community, now thriving, upwardly mobile, and finally in possession of a long overdue rightful sense of dignity. Much of that oppression coming from our own U.S. government. For this reason I can focus on Trump’s positive aspects and the benefits of his presidency and not get caught up in persuasion of others who in self-righteousness are quick to point out the speck in someone else’s eye, while ignoring the plank in their own.