Criminalization of Homelessness

[Moksha]

The Supreme Court is looking into the legal status of the homeless. The case, City of Grants Pass v. Johnson, carries enormous stakes nationwide as the conservative justices decide their fate.

Help us out. What, specifically, are the "enormous stakes?"

For the homeless, it would mean a place to sleep.

Help us out.

Glad to help out, but I can't help but sense this question is a bit adversarial.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The Supreme Court is looking into the legal status of the homeless. The case, City of Grants Pass v. Johnson, carries enormous stakes nationwide as the conservative justices decide their fate.

What is your opinion, and do you think the Soylent Green Snack Company of Linden Utah will receive a windfall in raw materials? Soylent could adopt the motto, "You can leave your heart in San Francisco again without worrying about dysentery."

It's already against the law to sleep outside on someone elses property. It's been the law your entire life. If you don't believe me, go try it sometime and see if you don't get arrested and provided with three hots and a cot in jail. I guess you'll just have to bring them all over to your place.

If Jesus were in charge, literally alive now and given charge to solve this issue, how would He solve this issue, Ajax?

- Doc

[Res Ipsa]

What distinguishes the Malheur bunch and Papa Bundy from the homeless. Weren’t all trespassing?

[yellowstone123]

Let me add this for issues of homelessness and the code written by the legislature and signed by the governor:

Welfare and Institution Code section 300...

(2) A child shall not be found to be a person described by this subdivision solely due to any of the following:

(A) Homelessness or the lack of an emergency shelter for the family.

(B) The failure of the child's parent or alleged parent to seek court orders for custody of the child.

(C) Indigence or other conditions of financial difficulty, including, but not limited to, poverty, the inability to provide or obtain clothing, home or property repair, or childcare.

[Res Ipsa]

Let me add this for issues of homelessness and the code written by the legislature and signed by the governor:

Welfare and Institution Code section 300...

(2) A child shall not be found to be a person described by this subdivision solely due to any of the following:

(A) Homelessness or the lack of an emergency shelter for the family.

(B) The failure of the child's parent or alleged parent to seek court orders for custody of the child.

(C) Indigence or other conditions of financial difficulty, including, but not limited to, poverty, the inability to provide or obtain clothing, home or property repair, or childcare.

Question: are these exceptions to when the juvenile court can take custody of children?

[yellowstone123]

Let me add this for issues of homelessness and the code written by the legislature and signed by the governor:

Welfare and Institution Code section 300...

(2) A child shall not be found to be a person described by this subdivision solely due to any of the following:

(A) Homelessness or the lack of an emergency shelter for the family.

(B) The failure of the child's parent or alleged parent to seek court orders for custody of the child.

(C) Indigence or other conditions of financial difficulty, including, but not limited to, poverty, the inability to provide or obtain clothing, home or property repair, or childcare.

Question: are these exceptions to when the juvenile court can take custody of children?

Yes and No.

I’ll give you the beginning in the ‘1990s in a few parts:

In general CPS in one California County will remove the children, place them with relatives or shelter care, write a report* describing the issue, it’s faxed to intake, detention and control (IDC) where a CPS worker there may have questions about the detention, and makes calls and clarifies some issues with the field office, the police or medical staff, and at least once or twice the CPS Emergency Response worker who did the initial investigation, detention and placement, wrote/typed and faxed the report to IDC and CPS worker at IDC will start a discussion the phone with each other, sometimes it gets heated as the CPS worker in the field who did all the work doesn't want to be lectured by a CPS worker at IDC/Court.

This may happen once if five years to the CPS emergency response worker in the field who is likely juggling 30 referrals/families at at a time. The IDC CPS worker may also have sat next to the worker on the phone and done Emergency Response a year before but is now at court.

The IDC CPS person writes/types the petition, calls and verifies questions, puts it on calendar for the following day, gets the petition, all reports and puts them together for the court. The court officer, a CPS worker, who could have also worked emergency response two years prior and all three worked in the same unit reads everything and gives it to the county counsel who will read and get familiar with the issues. County Counsel likely has two or three detentions that morning, 12 judicial reviews, and 2 trials later that afternoon in the same court room that day.

But I think my point is that being poor and homeless would have been flagged by so many people before it even was given to the judge for the first of many hearings and rulings. Being a poor family is not jurisdictional in Juvenile Court and a child brought before the court shall not be described as someone who is at high risk for depression, anxiety, withdrawal, untoward aggression, etc for living in poverty.

*In CPS investigation allegations of physical abuse and sexual abuse are extremely serious. The general rule is to bring the police with you or call them after a disclosure is made and have them interview the child. Many times, a CPS worker explains to the officers that they need to take the child into custody and release the child to them. This only takes a few seconds and, on the spot, but this is an arrest, a report by law enforcement is needed and completed, the report then goes to detectives. Many times, in cases like this the parent is dealing with two court rooms, judges, attorneys and different burdens of proof on the government. Where in Dependency Court (child abuse) the burden is a preponderance of evidence where in criminal court it’s beyond a reasonable doubt. Many times, the first responding officer will then go arrest the parent or perpetrator. Does this happen all the time. No, and it can lead to many difficulties later in court because this was not done at the beginning. When it’s clear that those two subdivisions of section 300 are involved, CPS needs to get the police to the school or home or shelter, neighbors house immediately.

To be continued

[ajax18]

It's already against the law to sleep outside on someone elses property. It's been the law your entire life. If you don't believe me, go try it sometime and see if you don't get arrested and provided with three hots and a cot in jail. I guess you'll just have to bring them all over to your place.

If Jesus were in charge, literally alive now and given charge to solve this issue, how would He solve this issue, Ajax?

- Doc

Jesus is alive today and He is still in charge. Jesus Himself was homeless during his mortal ministry. He also noted that the poor will always be with us. Nothing will ever solve the issue until the millennium. We live in a fallen world with sin, sickness, disability, and ultimately death. Perhaps one of the reasons God leaves the world in a fallen state is to give us an opportunity to use our own labor, time, judgment, and agency in helping the sick and afflicted. That opportunity and agency is robbed of mankind when governments or thieves confiscate their paychecks. Jesus is no communist. And while Jesus loves us and is relentlessly pursuing us in hopes that we can be worthy to reenter His presence, Heaven still has borders to keep out the unrepentant.

[yellowstone123]

ajax18 wrote:

"Jesus is no communist."

Written a lot better than I could do:

"The story of Ananias and Sapphira is found in Acts 5, and it is a sad story, indeed. It actually begins at the end of chapter 4 with the description of the early church in Jerusalem, a group of believers so filled with the Holy Spirit that they were of one heart and one mind. Great power and grace were on the apostles, who preached and testified of the risen Savior. So knit together were the hearts of the people that they held all their possessions loosely and willingly shared them with one another, not because they were coerced but because they loved one another. Those who sold land and houses gave of their profits to the apostles, who distributed the gifts to those in need.

Two members of this group were Ananias and his wife, Sapphira; they also had sold a field. Part of the profit from their sale was kept back by the couple, and Ananias only laid a part of the money at the apostles’ feet. However, Ananias made a pretense of having given all the proceeds. This hypocritical show may have fooled some, but not Peter, who was filled with the power of the Spirit. Peter knew instantly that Ananias was lying—not just to him but to God—and exposed his hypocrisy then and there. Ananias fell down and died (Acts 5:4). When Sapphira showed up, she, too, lied to Peter and to God, saying that they had donated the entire proceeds of the sale of the land to the church. When her lie had been exposed, she also fell down and died at Peter’s feet."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Ananias-and-Sapphira.html

This is something I try to learn about. What is communism of 2024, what is socialism of 2024 and what is capitalism of 2024? Is it different than in 1924? It seems the time, place, and culture may be needed and taken into account and black and white thinking may not solve the issue. Should someone get his 5th 20,000 foot guest house and 100,000 foot mansion on the five different coastal communities in the USA?

Jesus also gave instructions to someone interested in his message and ministry and told him to sell all his possessions, give them to the poor, and come follow me. This the young man could not do because he "owned" great possessions.

But when speaking at the United Nations, Golda Meir, former Labor Minster, Foreign Minster, Prime Minster of Israel addressed them at times as comrades, She believed as youth in Social-Zionism. She had to deal with Maki party who were Israeli Communist, her party Maipai - labor -socialism and the one Menachem Begin started - the Likud party, now the party that Netanyahu embraces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golda_Meir

I really want to learn.

[huckelberry]

What distinguishes the Malheur bunch and Papa Bundy from the homeless. Weren’t all trespassing?

Well, the Malheur affair was about cows and what cost was to be paid for their dinners. Nobody was homeless. Hmm that does not clarify the trespassing idea. Maybe a lot of guns displayed in quasi military show is relevant.

I in the past had no sympathy for the Bundy protest. However, local action by BLM regarding the closure of the south fork of Walla Walla river has given me reason to think perhaps I should consider a bit of sympathy.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

If Jesus were in charge, literally alive now and given charge to solve this issue, how would He solve this issue, Ajax?

- Doc

Jesus is alive today and He is still in charge. Jesus Himself was homeless during his mortal ministry. He also noted that the poor will always be with us. Nothing will ever solve the issue until the millennium. We live in a fallen world with sin, sickness, disability, and ultimately death. Perhaps one of the reasons God leaves the world in a fallen state is to give us an opportunity to use our own labor, time, judgment, and agency in helping the sick and afflicted. That opportunity and agency is robbed of mankind when governments or thieves confiscate their paychecks. Jesus is no communist. And while Jesus loves us and is relentlessly pursuing us in hopes that we can be worthy to reenter His presence, Heaven still has borders to keep out the unrepentant.

I’m talking about if he were literally here on earth and given the job of Homeless Czar to solve the issue. Given what we know about him, how would he solve it?

- Doc