DCP: “Tracting was an abysmal waste of time.”

[sock puppet]

hf. Fantasizing about writing to the minister to reveal that he now has a Phd is epic.

LOL. Yeah, that sure seems like someone who found the encounter "painful." How many times has he told this story publicly? A dozen or more at least? So often that it now seems as if that was *THE* highlight of his mission. In fact, a lot of his stories have this same basic pattern: i.e., where he's just going about his hum-drum business, and then, what do you know? Suddenly, due to reasons outside of his control, he's tossed into some situation where he triumphs! And not just that, his opponent winds up getting humiliated in the process. Think of that story he tells about winning his high school student body president election and then wandering outside to find his opponent utterly crushed and sobbing over the loss.

That basic pattern sounds like it was lifted from Marvel Comics.

[Gadianton]

That minister should be told that while he didn’t know it then, on that fateful day, he personally brought the future organizations of FARMs and MST and possibly others into existence. Notice how the young missionary’s main response was that he would have a PhD, it was only a matter of time. That episode defined the M. O. of dropping credentials as the primary means of argument, of downplaying critics for their formal education attainments. I think the young missionary greatly respected this minister and was in awe of his arrogance and condescension.

[Physics Guy]

Getting a PhD is an achievement, all right; something like maybe getting a black belt in some martial art, or completing a triathlon, or something. I have no martial art belt and have never finished any -thon, so I can't judge exactly how it stacks up to those, but I guess it's something kind of in that class.

A lot of people could do it if they really wanted. In particular an awful lot of people who frequently post on this board clearly command the kind of insight and articulacy that would be enough to earn a doctoral degree, if they wanted to put in the work.

For some careers, it's a prerequisite, so you have to do it. Otherwise, ehh, you have to decide. If there's some topic that really, really interests you, then maybe you should think about learning enough about it to be able to learn something about it that nobody knew before, which is what the PhD means. Or if you just want to see what it takes to discover even a small bit of new human knowledge, then you could pick the topic in which you'd most like to see that, and try.

Plenty of people who really aren't all that special have struggled through to a PhD. Plenty of profoundly brilliant people never bothered to do that.

No matter how brilliant you are, it's an education. You confront the limits of human intellect and learn how hard it is to be sure about anything. There are also other ways to learn those things, however.

[Gadianton]

It's true that both now and in the past this board has had a number of contributors with grad degrees. Even Ajax has doctorate! Funny thing is, I have no idea about anybody's dissertations. Well, excepting Doctor Scratch, whose dissertation is linked in the Hall of Fame threads. On the other hand, we all know a great deal about the dissertations toward the Phd's earned by the apologists as they talk about them frequently. Lou Midgley in particular used to talk nonstop about his Phd. lol. There has to be some major inadequacy issues here; it's hard to understand. Are they really so embarrassed about having a simple faith that the Lord Jesus Christ talked about? Why are they so embarrassed by the Lord? Why do the achievements of Babylon mean so much to them? Hugh Nibley used to talk down academic achievements, but his progeny went the exact opposite route.

And over on a particular blog, the credentials of believers both in and out of the Church are pumped continuously. It doesn't matter as much about what their ideas were, we're just supposed to know they did something fancy and therefore, God must exist. As for Mormonism: in a church with 16 million members, that a certain percentage have Phds, that's supposed to prove Joseph Smith was really a prophet. It's nuts.

Anyway, in my previous comments, I had something particular in mind. Yes, we've seen the flaunting over the years and decades on the Internet. But back in the day, mocking the academic backgrounds or careers of critics was a big thing for FARMS. In particular, Brent Metcalfe published a book called New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. FARMS got nasty in print about the backgrounds of Brent, Dan Vogel, Ed Ashment, and whoever else. Similar mocking was dealt to evangelical critics.

I think it's pretty clear that somebody was living out a revenge fantasy. Both humiliated and enamored by this minister, the young missionary was born a Mopologist that very day, swearing an oath to get a Phd and emulate the condescending of the minister who mocked their beliefs.

[Doctor Scratch]

Intellectual achievement—or, rather, the appearance of it, and to a lesser extent, artistic achievement, is valued above all else in Mopologetics. People who’ve achieved notoriety in these realms are extolled endlessly on SeN. Despite the Proprietor’s claims about the importance of religion, he seldom ever holds religious leaders in high esteem, nor do you ever get the sense that that’s what he’s been aspiring towards. People here sometimes make cracks about him wishing he was a GA, but he doesn’t give a crap about that—if he wanted to, he could put in his paperwork and serve a senior mission and probably get a cushy post as a temple president or a mission president somewhere pleasant.

But he doesn’t care about spiritual “accomplishments”; there is literally nothing in his oeuvre that even remotely suggests that he cares about living a spiritually admirable life. He doesn’t care about spiritual leaders or about people who model how to live a spiritually enriching life. He only cares about “worldly” accomplishments.

[Moksha]

... if he wanted to, he could put in his paperwork and serve a senior mission and probably get a cushy post as a temple president or a mission president somewhere pleasant.

Dr. Peterson is probably at that Emeritus age for non-Brethren, although he could write anti-Calvinist pamphlets for tracting missionaries to pass out as part of a senior mission.

In any case, he is serving as the Church's Ambassador-at-Large with his world travels. There is probably an organizational chart on a wall at the Interpreter Foundation noting this function.

[Gadianton]

I'd like to have seen Dan tell James E. Faust that tracting is a waste of time. Who doesn't remember this story?

Those of us who have served missions have seen the miracle in the lives of some we have taught as they have come to realize that they are sons and daughters of God. Many years ago an elder who served a mission in the British Isles said at the end of his labors, “I think my mission has been a failure. I have labored all my days as a missionary here and I have only baptized one dirty little Irish kid. That is all I baptized.”

Years later, after his return to his home in Montana, he had a visitor come to his home who asked, “Are you the elder who served a mission in the British Isles in 1873?”

“Yes.”

Then the man went on, “And do you remember having said that you thought your mission was a failure because you had only baptized one dirty little Irish kid?”

He said, “Yes.”

The visitor put out his hand and said, “I would like to shake hands with you. My name is Charles A. Callis, of the Council of the Twelve of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am that dirty little Irish kid that you baptized on your mission.”15

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... r?lang=eng

In a similar way, had that minister not been tracted out, FARMS, the MI, MST, possibly even FAIR -- none of these places ever would have existed.

[Doctor Scratch]

I can’t help but think that the Proprietor has been trying to put some distance between his current self and his Mopologetic past. He’ll never cop to feeling bad or ashamed for the things he did, but he *will* evidently try to shift focus elsewhere. So, you’re right, Dr. Robbers. Why doesn’t he celebrate that encounter as a formative moment?

[Philo Sofee]

Intellectual achievement—or, rather, the appearance of it, and to a lesser extent, artistic achievement, is valued above all else in Mopologetics. People who’ve achieved notoriety in these realms are extolled endlessly on SeN. Despite the Proprietor’s claims about the importance of religion, he seldom ever holds religious leaders in high esteem, nor do you ever get the sense that that’s what he’s been aspiring towards. People here sometimes make cracks about him wishing he was a GA, but he doesn’t give a crap about that—if he wanted to, he could put in his paperwork and serve a senior mission and probably get a cushy post as a temple president or a mission president somewhere pleasant.

But he doesn’t care about spiritual “accomplishments”; there is literally nothing in his oeuvre that even remotely suggests that he cares about living a spiritually admirable life. He doesn’t care about spiritual leaders or about people who model how to live a spiritually enriching life. He only cares about “worldly” accomplishments.

Ha! I finally caught the venerable Dr. Scratch in an error! It is not true that all he cares about is worldy accomplishments. He ALSO cares about worldly travel. Ha!

[Doctor Scratch]

Intellectual achievement—or, rather, the appearance of it, and to a lesser extent, artistic achievement, is valued above all else in Mopologetics. People who’ve achieved notoriety in these realms are extolled endlessly on SeN. Despite the Proprietor’s claims about the importance of religion, he seldom ever holds religious leaders in high esteem, nor do you ever get the sense that that’s what he’s been aspiring towards. People here sometimes make cracks about him wishing he was a GA, but he doesn’t give a crap about that—if he wanted to, he could put in his paperwork and serve a senior mission and probably get a cushy post as a temple president or a mission president somewhere pleasant.

But he doesn’t care about spiritual “accomplishments”; there is literally nothing in his oeuvre that even remotely suggests that he cares about living a spiritually admirable life. He doesn’t care about spiritual leaders or about people who model how to live a spiritually enriching life. He only cares about “worldly” accomplishments.

Ha! I finally caught the venerable Dr. Scratch in an error! It is not true that all he cares about is worldy accomplishments. He ALSO cares about worldly travel. Ha!

lol. Well… sort of. As I believe I pointed out elsewhere, he tends to only travel to secularist countries. There are huge portions of the globe—most of Asia and Africa, and pretty much all of Latin America—that he seems to actively avoid. You can read into that however you’d like, but it’s pretty much impossible to avoid drawing certain conclusions from his choices. To put it gently: he’s no Anthony Bourdain. He’s not even a 3rd-rate Andrew Zimmern. Zimmern is pretty much universally appreciated for his kindness and generosity.