Mormon Worldview

[pgm1985]

Those verses I referenced speak to the unborn having life. Not sure how much more proof you require.

I’m not sure why you’re asking for a definition, all your going to do is reply it is my subjective interpretation and not accept it.

OK, the tree in my back yard has "life." Is it moral for me to chop it down? If the Bible says that terminating "life" is a sin, then we're all in a heap of trouble. Can we even walk around without killing some form of "life?"

You've already acknowledged that it is moral to kill, not just "life", but human life under some specific set of circumstances. Where does the Bible say that abortion is "murder?"

Really? I think it was pretty obvious we were discussing human life. I also did not say it is moral to kill a human, just not sinful in all circumstances. Humans are different than any other living being because we are created in God’s image. Taking of a human life should always be a last resort if unavoidable.

[Res Ipsa]

I'm afraid we are miles apart. If you support anti-abortion legislation, then you are telling others what to do based on your subjectively chosen moral code. Exegis is a fancy word for making choices about how to apply the language of the Bible to a particular set of facts. The Bible doesn't do the choosing. You do. Subjectively.

Another example of what I'm describing as false consciousness. You aren't "finding" application -- you are choosing application. The difference is that if you finding something that is there, you are not morally responsible for what you find. If you are making a choice, you are morally responsible for that choice. The opposite opinions that Christians take on the question of whether abortion is a sin is a good example of how subjectivity and choice are necessary to get from the words in the Bible to application to specific situations.

I agree that the Bible, along with many other sources, contains general standards of morality. When you choose to ground your own moral code in the Bible, that is a subjective choice. Just as I choose the sources from which I derive my individual moral code. Regardless, to apply any generalized standard to the facts of a particular situation requires subjectively interpreting the standard and making choices about how it applies to specific facts. We can consult as many sources as we like, but that doesn't remove the subjective choices we must make to get from wherever we start to the specific facts we are confronted with.

My argument is that I form my moral code the same way you do. I just don't claim that mine is objective.

How do you define when human life begins and what is that based on?

Is your failure to answer my question an acknowledgment that the Bible does not explicitly say that abortion is murder?

[pgm1985]

How do you define when human life begins and what is that based on?

Is your failure to answer my question an acknowledgment that the Bible does not explicitly say that abortion is murder?

I already answered this question. Yes, the Bible does not explicitly say “Abortion is a sin.” The Bible also does not explicitly say pornography is a sin because it did not exist at that time, but we can easily infer it is. The Bible does not address many moral issues explicitly. That is why we infer application through understanding of the context of different verses to reach that conclusion.

[drumdude]

Is your failure to answer my question an acknowledgment that the Bible does not explicitly say that abortion is murder?

I already answered this question. Yes, the Bible does not explicitly say “Abortion is a sin.” The Bible also does not explicitly say pornography is a sin because it did not exist at that time, but we can easily infer it is. The Bible does not address many moral issues explicitly. That is why we infer application through understanding of the context of different verses to reach that conclusion.

That’s a subjective interpretation.

[Fence Sitter]

The Bible also does not explicitly say pornography is a sin because it did not exist at that time, but we can easily infer it is.

/boggle

[Morley]

The Bible also does not explicitly say pornography is a sin because it did not exist at that time, but we can easily infer it is.

/boggle

Sexual intercourse between a woman and a man on a terra cotta plaque from Mesopotamia, early 2nd millennium BCE (photo credit: The Israel Museum)


https://www.timesofisrael.com/4000-year ... sexuality/

[Fence Sitter]

Well at least the Bible itself isn't pornographic. Oh wait.

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled Ezekiel 23:19-21

“Awake, north wind, and come, south wind! Blow on my garden, that its fragrance may spread everywhere. Let my beloved come into his garden and taste its choice fruits.” - Song Of Solomon 4:16

“I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My beloved is knocking: "Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night. I have taken off my robe-- must I put it on again? I have washed my feet-- must I soil them again? My beloved thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him. I arose to open for my beloved, and my hands dripped with myrrh, my fingers with flowing myrrh, on the handles of the bolt." - Song Of Solomon 5:2–5

And then we have this porn story in Genesis.

“Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”

That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.” - Genesis 19:30–36

[huckelberry]

finding the Song of Solomon pornographic is just plain warped. (hyper puritan gone cancerous)

/////
finding the Lot story arousing is one sick reaction.

[Fence Sitter]

Huckelberry,

Much of this discussion is focused on whether or not the morality taught in the Bible is objectively evident or subjectively. Your reaction to literature that many would and have labeled as pornographic is evidence of the subjectivity we all bring to the interpretation of the Bible.

[huckelberry]

Huckelberry,

Much of this discussion is focused on whether or not the morality taught in the Bible is objectively evident or subjectively. Your reaction to literature that many would and have labeled as pornographic is evidence of the subjectivity we all bring to the interpretation of the Bible.

fence Sitter, I can see your point. I see the Bible as an ongoing and open ended discussion which is experienced subjectively by readers.
I just feel a bit sorry for anybody who is so bound up over the subject of sex that they are troubled by the Song. It is sexual and that is part of its value.