Assassination Attempt - Secret Service - DEI

[canpakes]

Those questions need to be answered because they’re reasonable, practical, and relate directly to the process.

; )

[Dwight]

Answer the questions posed and I might think you were unwittingly taken in by racist sexist talking points and apologize. Otherwise I stand by that you are at least subconsciously racist/sexist and when called out you double down rather than being able to articulate a non-sexist/racist reason to ask questions.

You may mistake me for a man that cares what racists and sexists think of me, but honestly the more you don’t answer, and the fact that you can’t bring yourself to examine Trump with the lens you demand we examine Biden speaks volumes.

[Res Ipsa]

Honestly I know I have been flippant and too aggressive, but I have also started and stopped at least a dozen responses that were similar, that I think Ceeboo deep down is not coming to this from an honest place untainted by racism or sexism.

I agree that ceeboo is not coming from an honest place, but I'm unsure that it's a result of racism or sexism. If I had to guess, I think he's been inundated by right-wing talking points he is uncritical of and tends to ask questions based on nonsensical premises. He never shines the light on his own beliefs he wants everyone to shine on theirs.

I don't think that what Ceeboo says on this board has anything to do with honesty. If I were to guess, it would have much more to do with the issue of cognitive bias and how to think about oneself. I've never taken a cognitive bias test. I don't have to. I know my brain is pretty much wired like everybody else's and I've read lots of literature about cognitive biases. Implicit racial biases are so common that there is no reason for me to expect I'm any different.

So, if I make a comment and someone says I'm being racist or sexist, I don't feel insulted. Unless I'm spending a great deal of effort double checking before I speak or post, it's pretty likely that I will say something racist or sexist from time to time. And it's not hard to respond to such a comment without seeing it as a challenge to my honor. (No Honor, not you...)

But I can do that because of the way that I think about my brain.

It is abundantly clear that lots and lots of people don't think about their brains the way I think about mine. When they hear "racist" and "sexist" applied to their speech or actions, what they experience is "you are a bad person." Even given how much slack I cut my own brain, my reaction to being called a racist would be the same. I'm okay with "that thing you said is racist" or "that joke you told is racist," but I will very likely respond defensively to "you are a racist."

Throwing the concept of honesty into this kind of situation is toxic as hell. It's one the worst aspects of online discourse. I disagree with Ceeboo on all kinds of things, but to leverage those disagreements into claims of dishonesty is uncalled for. Its the very worst part of the back and forth between Mopologists and critics, where every trivial mistake generates accusations of dishonesty.

i've interacted with Ceeboo quite a bit, and I have no reason to question his honesty. Our political worldviews are so far apart that I'm sure we say things that, as they say, strains our personal credulity. But I think it is a mistake to from that to a conclusion that other is being dishonest. In fact, drawing a conclusion based on personal incredulity is a logical fallacy. I suspect the correct response is to adjust one's credulity meter.

Ceebs, if I've given you the impression that I've questioned your honesty, I apologize. I take it on face value that what you say is honest and grounded in good faith. I may disagree with your assumptions or your reasoning on some issues, but I don't question your honesty or personal integrity.

[ceeboo]

Answer the questions posed and I might think you were unwittingly taken in by racist sexist talking points and apologize. Otherwise I stand by that you are at least subconsciously racist/sexist and when called out you double down rather than being able to articulate a non-sexist/racist reason to ask questions.

Looks like you chose not to apologize.

Before this, I figured you were a just a moron. Now, I know you're a complete moron with little character.

You may mistake me for a man that cares what racists and sexists think of me

At first, I probably did mistake you, I usually give people the benefit of the doubt because I enjoy it when it's extended to me. I will not mistake you again.

to examine Trump with the lens you demand we examine Biden speaks volumes.

Trump/Biden? I see now, You're a huge moron!

[canpakes]

Ceebs, I don’t think that there’s a person alive without some level or element of subconscious racism. It’s literally built into our DNA as a survival aid.

What matters more than the bits we are composed of is what we do with the bits.

[ceeboo]

Ceebs, if I've given you the impression that I've questioned your honesty, I apologize.

Absolutely no need to apologize - You have never given me that impression. On the contrary, you are very generous with giving me the benefit of doubt and you quite often extend me grace. Perhaps more grace than you should at times.

I take it on face value that what you say is honest and grounded in good faith.

Same back at you.

I may disagree with your assumptions or your reasoning on some issues,

Some issues? LOL!

but I don't question your honesty or personal integrity.

As much as I disagree with you about politics, I have never questioned your honesty or personal integrity. Truth be told, your personal integrity is one of the things I admire most about you.

[Res Ipsa]

Ceebs, if I've given you the impression that I've questioned your honesty, I apologize.

Absolutely no need to apologize - You have never given me that impression. On the contrary, you are very generous with giving me the benefit of doubt and you quite often extend me grace. Perhaps more grace than you should at times.

I take it on face value that what you say is honest and grounded in good faith.

Same back at you.

I may disagree with your assumptions or your reasoning on some issues,

Some issues? LOL!

but I don't question your honesty or personal integrity.

As much as I disagree with you about politics, I have never questioned your honesty or personal integrity. Truth be told, your personal integrity is one of the things I admire most about you.

Thanks, Ceebs. I have never thought that you questioned my honesty or integrity.

[Dwight]

I'm sorry Ceeboo that you have gotten taken in by the DEI boogeyman. You have sidestepped or ignored people who have genuinely tried to engage with you, and for me it points to you have made up your mind and DEI is the problem and it's okay cause it is a way to blame minorities. I don't have any problem with trying to determine if DEI has led to lowering of standards, but my guess is it hasn't. You want a comprehensive report now cause the government should be accountable to the people, but the guy running for the top job in the government doesn't need to give any reports cause he got shot at. As has been pointed out, Trump interfered with his detail protecting him the way they would want. He wore shoe lifts, he panicked to get his shoes. Easy to armchair quarterback that he shouldn't have popped his head up, or cared about his shoes, but it is also easy to armchair quarterback the agents.

It is embarrassing what happened and how it went down. I just don't think there is any smoke or fire that DEI caused any problems. I think there should be an investigation, and I think they can look at DEI, but given what we saw it is very unlikely to even be top 10 failure.

I do not think you are consciously racist/sexist, but I do think people that are can get into your head, and you are carrying water for them. Something your friends have tried to gently point out and you refuse to see it. Which makes me think that despite what you say, you buy into DEI or woke policies are to blame, and you will only accept that it be at least part of the problem.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

“Never believe that Christian nationalists are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is the democrats who are obliged to use words responsibly, since they believes in words. The Christian nationalists play games." - John, Paul, Peter, and Mary

- Doc

[Physics Guy]

I'm sorry but I won't take the time to read eighteen pages of this thread, so in case I'm repeating old points I'll at least keep my post short.

The only way a sniper can protect a person from another sniper is to kill a human being just for looking suspicious. That's a hard problem.

Secret Service snipers must be thoroughly trained about exactly this problem. They must have clear orders for when to shoot, and when not. Maybe in this case the Secret Service snipers screwed up and they would have shot this assassin sooner if they had all followed orders properly, but maybe the time it took to get the guy shot was properly following procedures for a difficult problem, and the failure was not with the Secret Service snipers but in the earlier breakdown that let this shooter get into position in the first place.