"All men are created equal"

[sock puppet]

In the U.S. Declaration of Independence includes a line that "All men are created equal." That was early July 1776 and authored primarily by Thomas Jefferson with John Adams and Benjamin Franklin participating with Jefferson in some of the early drafting edits. After the Revolutionary War, in 1783 the U.S. Constitution was drafted and ratified as such. It does not include the notion of equality, except perhaps as an implication of democratic, majority voting among white men. Of course, women were not equal. Nor were black men--each only counting only 3/5ths of a white man for purposes of allocating memberships in the U.S. House of Representatives among the States. It was not until the post-Civil War amendments that the 14th Amendment supposedly made black men equal with white men, banning disparity in laws treating men of different races. (I say supposedly because it has been the subject of numerous litigations reaching the U.S. Supreme Court and lesser courts ever since the 14th Amendment was passed.) Also, it was another 50 or so years before women would get to vote, and the Equal Rights Amendment for women failed to pass in the 1970s and early 1980s.

My point here is that men were, according to the Declaration of Independence, 'created', presupposing a creator. A god, if you will. So, from where would the notion that god created all men equally have emanated? Not the Bible which is rife with slavery. Was this just the Founding Fathers in late 18th Century and/or based on the writings of some philosophers' writings realizing the virtue of equality and then projecting that notion onto "God," that he must have created us all equal?

[drumdude]

A mixture of religious and enlightenment thinking was the source of the idea:

In English history there exists earlier uses of nearly the same phrase. First by the medieval priest John Ball who at the outbreak of the 1381 Peasants Revolt in his famous sermon posited the question "When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman?" and proclaimed "From the beginning all men by nature were created alike".

In his 1690 work Second Treatise of Government the philosopher John Locke argues that in the "state of nature" that existed before the formation of governments all men were created equal.

Another example is in John Milton's 1649 book called The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates, written after the First English Civil War to defend the actions and rights of the Parliamentary cause, in the wake of the execution of king Charles I. The English poet says: "No man who knows ought, can be so stupid to deny that all men naturally were borne free, being the image and resemblance of God himself ... born to command and not to obey: and that they liv'd so".

[sock puppet]

A mixture of religious and enlightenment thinking was the source of the idea:

In English history there exists earlier uses of nearly the same phrase. First by the medieval priest John Ball who at the outbreak of the 1381 Peasants Revolt in his famous sermon posited the question "When Adam delved and Eve span, Who was then the gentleman?" and proclaimed "From the beginning all men by nature were created alike".

In his 1690 work Second Treatise of Government the philosopher John Locke argues that in the "state of nature" that existed before the formation of governments all men were created equal.

Another example is in John Milton's 1649 book called The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates, written after the First English Civil War to defend the actions and rights of the Parliamentary cause, in the wake of the execution of king Charles I. The English poet says: "No man who knows ought, can be so stupid to deny that all men naturally were borne free, being the image and resemblance of God himself ... born to command and not to obey: and that they liv'd so".

That seems very problematic for Mormonism. If medieval priest John Ball was told that or inspired by God to say that, then why did God leave George Albert Smith (then the Mormon prophet) as late as August 1947--more than 500 years later--with the impression that the black ban on the priesthood and temple rites was a "direct commandment from the Lord" and a doctrine? If on the other hand created-equal was John Ball's notion, then it took God almost 600 years to see the light in 1978. It's too bad the Mormon prophets were not smarter men, to have thought through the implications of what they proclaim are direct commandments from the Lord before so declaring such.

[Fence Sitter]

That seems very problematic for Mormonism. If medieval priest John Ball was told that or inspired by God to say that, then why did God leave George Albert Smith (then the Mormon prophet) as late as August 1947--more than 500 years later--with the impression that the black ban on the priesthood and temple rites was a "direct commandment from the Lord" and a doctrine? If on the other hand created-equal was John Ball's notion, then it took God almost 600 years to see the light in 1978. It's too bad the Mormon prophets were not smarter men, to have thought through the implications of what they proclaim are direct commandments from the Lord before so declaring such.

Unfortunately for Mormonism, a straightforward reading of its scriptures supports racial inequality. The Mormon God favors white people (mostly men) more than any other skin color. How does a Mormon criticize racism without also attacking the Book of Mormon?

[Moksha]

I hope the Saints do not come out with any racial or gender putdowns of the Vice President, like having Anette Dennis announce that one needs a priesthood antenna to help lead the nation, or that she was not valiant in the pre-existence because of her ancestry. Keeping that Mormon thinking hidden deep in the Church's canyon vault is best.

[yellowstone123]

In the U.S. Declaration of Independence includes a line that "All men are created equal." That was early July 1776 and authored primarily by Thomas Jefferson with John Adams and Benjamin Franklin participating with Jefferson in some of the early drafting edits. After the Revolutionary War, in 1783 the U.S. Constitution was drafted and ratified as such. It does not include the notion of equality, except perhaps as an implication of democratic, majority voting among white men. Of course, women were not equal. Nor were black men--each only counting only 3/5ths of a white man for purposes of allocating memberships in the U.S. House of Representatives among the States. It was not until the post-Civil War amendments that the 14th Amendment supposedly made black men equal with white men, banning disparity in laws treating men of different races. (I say supposedly because it has been the subject of numerous litigations reaching the U.S. Supreme Court and lesser courts ever since the 14th Amendment was passed.) Also, it was another 50 or so years before women would get to vote, and the Equal Rights Amendment for women failed to pass in the 1970s and early 1980s.

My point here is that men were, according to the Declaration of Independence, 'created', presupposing a creator. A god, if you will. So, from where would the notion that god created all men equally have emanated? Not the Bible which is rife with slavery. Was this just the Founding Fathers in late 18th Century and/or based on the writings of some philosophers' writings realizing the virtue of equality and then projecting that notion onto "God," that he must have created us all equal?

Dan McClellan made some good points about equality in this 5 minute video. He addresses issues in the Bible and early America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbd-ZbwfaeU