SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Doctor Scratch
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
Posts: 1494
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:24 pm
Location: Cassius University

SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by Doctor Scratch »

I see that the Proprietor has been taking swipes at other religious traditions and religious texts once again. This time, he is apparently treating the Bible and the Qur’an as “inferior” because they’re not as long as the Book of Mormon:
the Qur’an — to which the Book of Mormon is occasionally compared — is 77,797 words long in its original Classical Arabic. That is approximately 80% of the length of the New Testament (which, accordingly, totals something close to 100,000 words altogether). And, according to Islamic sources, the Qur’an was revealed over the space of twenty-two years, between AD 610 and Muhammad’s death in AD 632. That’s rather longer than the 2.5 months required for the dictation of the Book of Mormon.
The Old Testament book of Isaiah is 25,608 words long in its original Hebrew text. Jeremiah, the longest book in the entire Bible, is 33,002. No single book in the New Testament even comes close. Between his own gospel and the Acts of the Apostles, which he also wrote, Luke weighs in at a total of 37,932 words. A well-educated physician, he is the most voluminous contributor to the New Testament. By contrast, with all of his many epistles, the apostle Paul comes in at second place, with 32,408.

The Torah or Pentateuch — Genesis (32,046), Exodus (25,957), Leviticus (18,852), Numbers (25,048), and Deuteronomy (23,008) — is sometimes known as the Five Books of Moses. Taken altogether, it is at the absolute core of Judaism. And, in their entirety, those five books reach the impressive sum of 124,911 words. But that’s substantially less than half the word count of the Book of Mormon.

So far as I’m aware, therefore, the Book of Mormon stands as the single largest purportedly revealed text in the Abrahamic tradition, and it does so by a considerable margin.
Well, to be fair, shouldn’t we subtract the bits of the Book of Mormon that have been lifted straight out of the Bible? That kind of tends to put a bit of a damper on this argument, doesn’t it?

Regardless, it seems to me that the Afore is losing some of his polemical edge if he is really making such a dumb argument with a straight face. The Book of Mormon is somehow on a par with other religious texts simply because it is *long*? Gee, is Marcel Proust’s Remembrance of Things Past the greatest work of literature due to sheer length?

He goes on to pose a question:
I simply pose the question of why, if Joseph set out to pretend to prophethood, he chose to go to the enormous effort of creating such a massive work. Nobody else in the entire Abrahamic tradition of whom I’m aware, perhaps (though I can’t think of any) with the possible exception of one or two obscure actors who have plainly sought to create something in explicit imitation of Joseph Smith, has done anything of comparable magnitude.
Yes, it’s the old “How could this uneducated farm boy have done it!”, but the Afore is also answering his own question. What, really, is the difference between the “obscure actors,” seeking to imitate Joseph Smith, vs Joseph Smith himself, seeking to imitate the Bible?
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
huckelberry
God
Posts: 3412
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by huckelberry »

It is at least possible that Joseph had a genuine interest and drive to create and tell stories. It was not just something as blind as wanting to pretend to be a prophet.
drumdude
God
Posts: 7211
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by drumdude »

“interpteter” wrote:The Book of Mormon Lexile score is 1150, which correlates to an eighth-grade reading level, with a range that includes some sixth graders and most in the eleventh grade.

Since many books have been analyzed and assigned Lexile scores, these can be used when comparing authors and their books to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Other popular books with an 1150 Lexile score include Brothers Karamazov (Fyodor Dostoyevsky, 364,153 words), Moby Dick, (Herman Melville, 206,052 words), and Great Expectations (Charles Dickens, 162,690 words).
https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... of-Mormon/

It’s a shame the Book of Mormon wasn’t written at a higher grade level. That would have been a real feather in the apologist cap. Instead it’s just as average as you’d expect with the null hypothesis that its creation wasn’t magical.
Dr Exiled
God
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by Dr Exiled »

This reminds me of a forgettable football season where we're losing 42-0 and our cheerleaders attempt to lead the crown in another stupid cheer ...
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
User avatar
IWMP
Pirate
Posts: 1881
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:46 pm

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by IWMP »

What happened to plain and simple?

Sometimes less is more. If you remove the and it came to passes etc... lol

I don't think word count is equated to quality. But I do think there are some valuable things in the Book of Mormon. As with the quran and the Bible.

ETA: although... Is DCP actually saying the other books don't add up or is he just stating factual information about the number of words and saying that someone wouldn't go to that effort if they aren't a prophet(although I personally think they would)? I don't read DCPs blog/ articles.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 7915
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by Moksha »

huckelberry wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:25 am
It is at least possible that Joseph had a genuine interest and drive to create and tell stories.
Joseph and his big blue ox were a force to be reckoned with in MidWest folklore. Today we can see the Ox symbolically as the Interpreter Foundation.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
drumdude
God
Posts: 7211
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by drumdude »

IWMP wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:23 am
What happened to plain and simple?

Sometimes less is more. If you remove the and it came to passes etc... lol

I don't think word count is equated to quality. But I do think there are some valuable things in the Book of Mormon. As with the quran and the Bible.

ETA: although... Is DCP actually saying the other books don't add up or is he just stating factual information about the number of words and saying that someone wouldn't go to that effort if they aren't a prophet(although I personally think they would)? I don't read DCPs blog/ articles.
He’s really just saying “wow it’s really big.” It’s a pretty silly argument, in my opinion.
Dr Exiled
God
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:40 pm

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by Dr Exiled »

Of all the books east and west, the Book of Mormon is the best .......

Go Team!

Yay Team!

Image
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5450
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by Philo Sofee »

IWMP wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:23 am
What happened to plain and simple?

Sometimes less is more. If you remove the and it came to passes etc... lol

I don't think word count is equated to quality. But I do think there are some valuable things in the Book of Mormon. As with the quran and the Bible.

ETA: although... Is DCP actually saying the other books don't add up or is he just stating factual information about the number of words and saying that someone wouldn't go to that effort if they aren't a prophet(although I personally think they would)? I don't read DCPs blog/ articles.
Once again, it's quantity that impresses apologists, not quality.
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 5450
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: SeN: Bible & Qur’an Don’t Measure up to Book of Mormon Because of “Sheer Size”

Post by Philo Sofee »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2024 2:27 am
IWMP wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2024 1:23 am
What happened to plain and simple?

Sometimes less is more. If you remove the and it came to passes etc... lol

I don't think word count is equated to quality. But I do think there are some valuable things in the Book of Mormon. As with the quran and the Bible.

ETA: although... Is DCP actually saying the other books don't add up or is he just stating factual information about the number of words and saying that someone wouldn't go to that effort if they aren't a prophet(although I personally think they would)? I don't read DCPs blog/ articles.
He’s really just saying “wow it’s really big.” It’s a pretty silly argument, in my opinion.
Yeah BIG = true.......... I mean.......really?!?
Post Reply