Elder Oaks wants MORE Excommunications!

[IWMP]

Isn't the goal of the church to increase membership number? That's why they are baptising dead is it not? See ms counter productive.

[L.E.Hills]

Anti-Mos - "The Church isn't true! That's why I left it!" snort snort snivel snort

Anti-Mos: "President Oaks want's more Excommunications! I'm so upset!" snort snort cry cry snivel

[drumdude]

I think it’s way past someone’s nap time…

[Abaddon]

This has everything to do with forcing people (that "sin greatly") to rely on them to come clean with Jesus.

Forget that Jesus should be enough; it's hammering home that sinners "need" mortal men to be sure that Jesus is really OK with them.

Too many people going to Jesus alone and getting forgiveness won't do because then they might get other revelation; it's all about making a believer believe they need to rely on the arm of flesh to get their spiritual purity restored.

[Moksha]

Here's a hat with our motto! MEGA - "Make Excommunications Great Again"

Additional motto for the Stake church membership council: Mormon Jesus can kick the stuffing out of Loving Jesus.

Does Oaks list offenses that can be used to purge the membership rolls?

The traditional list such as tobacco, coffee, tea, alcohol, multiple earrings, impure thoughts, and sex. No mention of business dealings since there is no need to drive away high tithe payers. The Interpreter Foundation could draw up a hit list of additional offenses.

[Chap]

I think it’s way past someone’s nap time…

Or else L.E. Hills is a vicious troll who has come to this board for the sole purpose of making Mormons look just a little ridiculous. If that is his aim, I have to admit that he is not doing at all badly.

[Physics Guy]

Anyone ever been in a Zorb? I tried one once but it was only floating in a little wading pool, so I couldn’t really go anywhere, just roll around a bit.

It’s possible to move around the world in a resilient bubble. Zorbs are cool but disturbing in making you realize that.

[yellowstone123]

If this is true, it’s sad.

It bears an unsettling resemblance to the blood atonement doctrine. It suggests that there are offenses God cannot pardon without undergoing the Mormon church’s repentance process. It places the sole antidote in the church’s hands.

Know that if you go through this experience that you or at significant risk of experiencing, serious emotional harm due to the church’s conduct. This harm can cause severe anxiety, depression, withdrawal, or harmful aggressive behavior directed towards yourself or others.

After I came home from my mission after two months, I broke some rules. I confessed. I went through two disciplinary hearings, the last one resulted in me being excommunicated. I look back and say, I went through the temple in July 1980 at age 18 and was excommunicated in July 1981 at age 19. Wow, what a year.

Later on in life I would hear the word cumulative trauma used in a legal sense. That’s how I would describe that year.

So what can happen?

School that usually can be done in four to five years takes ten or is not completed. Relationships never begin or fall apart. Aggressive behavior towards self or what others call self destruction behavior is real.

Some will experience PTSD which can manifest itself through out ones life. Know also that if it does happen to seek professional help from non LDS friends and family.

Gina Colvin called the process barbaric.

Also, when you are harmed and want to go to a real court for damages know that you have to do this within a certain time period. If you find that 9 months after the excommunication/membership withdrawal that it’s just starting to hit, then it’s time to take legal action against those who were involved in this dehumanizing act.

A psychological/emotional assault can leave you stunned, bewildered. Mine left me crying on the floor of a bathroom in the stake center. Later, self-isolation becomes the norm which can lead to suicidal ideation and when that happens usually a medical doctor will say that for a few days they need to place you in a safe place.

Many times it’s years before things start to appear and the church is betting that the statute of limitations has run when things start going bad.

I believe God does love people that mess up, that don’t hit the mark; that His power is perfected in weakness. If you need a good book to read about it, Do the Next Right Thing by Pastor Roger Thompson is one of the best.

[toon]

Was he really just saying the more members are excommunicated the fewer members are left to excommunicate?

I don’t think so. I think they are looking at excommunications being down the same way a business would look at profit being down. For example, Walgreens looks at profit using the following formula:

Profit = (number of customers through door) x (profit per customer)

If profits are down, it’s either because fewer people are walking into the store, or the people who are walking in the door are purchasing less stuff, or both.

Likewise, Oaks is looking at excommunications this way:

Total Excommunications = [Number of Councils] x [Probability Council Results in an Excommunication]

He’s saying that total excommunications are down because there are fewer councils and the councils that are convened don’t end in excommunications as frequently as they used to. Therefore, to get total excommunications up to where they need to be, stake presidents should do both of the following:

1. Convene more councils
2. Push harder to resolve each council with an excommunication

I think that is his point.

I would define profit as revenue less costs. It costs something to keep an inactive on the books. For me and my family, it’s a few visits per year and I don’t know how much time discussing us in meetings and whatever efforts it takes to reach out. Yet we add nothing. My family and I are a net drain on church resources.

Leaving the 99 on search of the one may not be a sound business practice if the real goal is to maximize profit.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Oaks probably believes drastically increasing excommunications will scare people and make them realize they have nowhere else to go.