Xit from Bednar, 10/5/24

[Res Ipsa]

That's not what the LDS church has taught, but I can see the reason for the change, as it is simply insupportable as a history. It would be better, in my opinion, if they were honest about the change in direction, but I doubt that will happen, given their history on making and announcing the reasoning behind this type of change.

Yeah, I don't see them announcing it either. Probably because there is no consensus among the leaders, no real value given to scholarship over prophetic calling, and a huge worry that many believing LDS people would panic if the LDS Church were to do such a thing.

I was unaware Smith ever indicated anything like what you stated above, in fact, from what I've read he told people the opposite, that it was a history, and that he translated it from an unknown language. I'd be interested in seeing any research about Smith that indicates otherwise, or that indicates Smith specifically intended for it to be a pseudo-biblical writing, if you have a link.

That was a statement of fact as I see it, not an attempt to read Joseph Smith's mind. Based on what we see in the Book of Mormon, he must have written it to be in the same genre as the Bible, as it extensively quotes the Bible and adopts a lot of Biblical elements in its language and style. My thought on Smith is that he was so bold (or foolish) as to write his own Bible, and he had no intention at all to write "pseudo-biblical writing."

In a religious vein, every time people say the Book of Mormon is "Bible fan fiction" or "pseudo-biblical writing," I consider it either a purposeful or inadvertent partisan statement that lines up with the majority Christian view of Biblical authority. Funny thing, since most people I see using such language are either atheists or non-Christians, but that is probably due to the online company I keep.

I kind of lost the thread here, Reverend. Are you contrasting what was going in Smith's head with a third-party's description of the result?

[Kishkumen]

I kind of lost the thread here, Reverend. Are you contrasting what was going in Smith's head with a third-party's description of the result?

Thanks for the question, RI. My intention is to contrast what I think is a factual or descriptive outsider perspective on what Smith was doing with partisan anti-LDS rhetoric.

[Kishkumen]

I used the term 'pseudo-biblical' in response to your phrase 'write in the Bible genre'; it came out of reading all Carmack's Early Modern English and related papers, and various articles about what people wrote at the time in that genre.

If you interpreted that as a "partisan statement that lines up with the majority Christian view of Biblical authority," it was certainly inadvertent on my part because it was based on how the terms were used in my research, as representing a style of writing. It had nothing to do with me believing in any Christian view about the Bible, nor was my atheism relevant in any way.

For me, given it was definitional and purely based on my research, I couldn't have a drier, more boring and non-partisan reason for using the term, but thanks for the heads up on how my use of the phrase may be mistakenly interpreted, that's useful information for any future conversations.

Hey, Marcus. Thank you for the clarification. Part of the problem, as I see it, is that the Christian view is reflexively adopted as normative in even the driest, aspirationally objective descriptions. I did not intend to characterize your use negatively. I apologize for failing to stipulate that.

[Res Ipsa]

I kind of lost the thread here, Reverend. Are you contrasting what was going in Smith's head with a third-party's description of the result?

Thanks for the question, RI. My intention is to contrast what I think is a factual or descriptive outsider perspective on what Smith was doing with partisan anti-LDS rhetoric.

Thanks.

[Philo Sofee]

That’s probably more likely to get you removed from the meeting

Am I a jerk for now wanting to go wherever Bednar is speaking next and purposefully remain seated until I get thrown out just to see how long I can keep him waiting in the foyer. . . and simultaneously see how mad it makes him?

I'll go with ya Shades......

[huckelberry]

My impression, I remember it as having always been claimed that the Book of Mormon is a book that by inspiration is a message aimed at our time even if written by ancient people recording events of their time.

Ill eat my hat if Bednar meant the Book of Mormon is not a real record of events recorded by ancient people. He means just as always its real history but a message for us now. Isn't that one of those always recycling inspirational messages? " Read the Book of Mormon more often, it is critical for our times."

[Marcus]

I used the term 'pseudo-biblical' in response to your phrase 'write in the Bible genre'; it came out of reading all Carmack's Early Modern English and related papers, and various articles about what people wrote at the time in that genre.

If you interpreted that as a "partisan statement that lines up with the majority Christian view of Biblical authority," it was certainly inadvertent on my part because it was based on how the terms were used in my research, as representing a style of writing. It had nothing to do with me believing in any Christian view about the Bible, nor was my atheism relevant in any way.

For me, given it was definitional and purely based on my research, I couldn't have a drier, more boring and non-partisan reason for using the term, but thanks for the heads up on how my use of the phrase may be mistakenly interpreted, that's useful information for any future conversations.

Hey, Marcus. Thank you for the clarification. Part of the problem, as I see it, is that the Christian view is reflexively adopted as normative in even the driest, aspirationally objective descriptions. I did not intend to characterize your use negatively. I apologize for failing to stipulate that.

No need for apology, I didn't take it negatively. I appreciate the input about how others might perceive its use as a term. I will definitely keep that in mind so that I don't give the wrong impression, as I am likely only to use it in writing about my assessment of how Carmack and Skousen use statistical principles, etc., in support of their Early Modern English hypotheses.

(which is in the works given the presentation the two did over the summer at BYU.)

[Res Ipsa]

Hey, Marcus. Thank you for the clarification. Part of the problem, as I see it, is that the Christian view is reflexively adopted as normative in even the driest, aspirationally objective descriptions. I did not intend to characterize your use negatively. I apologize for failing to stipulate that.

No need for apology, I didn't take it negatively. I appreciate the input about how others might perceive its use as a term. I will definitely keep that in mind so that I don't give the wrong impression, as I am likely only to use it in writing about my assessment of how Carmack and Skousen use statistical principles, etc., in support of their Early Modern English hypotheses.

(which is in the works given the presentation the two did over the summer at BYU.)

I'm looking forward to reading your analysis.

[Marcus]

No need for apology, I didn't take it negatively. I appreciate the input about how others might perceive its use as a term. I will definitely keep that in mind so that I don't give the wrong impression, as I am likely only to use it in writing about my assessment of how Carmack and Skousen use statistical principles, etc., in support of their Early Modern English hypotheses.

(which is in the works given the presentation the two did over the summer at BYU.)

I'm looking forward to reading your analysis.

Thank you!

[malkie]

Am I a jerk for now wanting to go wherever Bednar is speaking next and purposefully remain seated until I get thrown out just to see how long I can keep him waiting in the foyer. . . and simultaneously see how mad it makes him?

I'll go with ya Shades......

Since I'm the guy who made the suggestion, I hope you & Shades are not going to leave me behind!

ETA: It's long past time for a Board Members' road trip. What do you say? Who's up for it?