If you hate a person, then you are defeated by them.

[canpakes]

Thanks for that information Canpakes. Looking forward to listening to the crickets.

Ditto. I've got a right wing friend who constantly asks for 'facts' from me, but refuses to look up facts on their own. This helps in yet another category.

Something for your right-wing friend to consider is that the CATO Institute is a libertarian-leaning think tank and is no friend to ‘the left’.

Folks in Ceeboo’s camp have been led into politicizing selected deaths without realizing that they’ve been lied to about just whose policies made that situation much worse overall. But considering that the Trump team has made lying to their base the central and strongest element of their campaign, it follows that lying about their lack of effectiveness on immigration and hiding how they mismanaged priorities in favor of showmanship is hardly a surprise.

[Gadianton]

Something for your right-wing friend to consider is that the CATO Institute is a libertarian-leaning think tank and is no friend to ‘the left’.

I can't finish the paragraph that Marcus started but if Marcus' friend is anything like my right-wing friend, I could show him the CATO source and he'd end up agreeing with me no problem; I can't recall a time he ever disputed one of my fact checks of his right-wing ideas. He'll even take Snopes. He actually kind of likes it when I do it, as it gives him some undeserved attention. But, he'll never look it up himself. And it doesn't matter, because he just moves onto the next, "But what about?" He has got to the point where he wants to say something, and he preferences it with "I don't know if I believe this one but let me run it by you...I'm skeptical" (of course he totally believes it and isn't skeptical) because the track record is literally like 0 / 1000 accusations that he's made. But he won't just look it up himself for some reason. Does my Google search have a secret power that his doesn't?

I've got to the point where I won't look it up for him. I've told him the story about the boy who cried wolf many times, as I think he missed that one growing up. I tell him now that I'll look up whatever it is he's on about to satisfy my curiosity -- but that I'm not going to tell him the answer.

[Res Ipsa]

... Unless you're suggesting that the illegal immigrant that murdered a 12-year-old American citizen (what we have discussing) is one of these "good and productive people."

You’ve been suckered, and you’re backing the wrong candidate. Here’s what Trump’s record on this is, as reported by the CATO imstitute:

- On his fourth day in office, Trump signed an executive order rescinding Obama-era policies that prioritized the detention and removal of serious public safety threats;

- Within a few months, his administration was secretly separating families, using prosecutorial resources to jail migrant parents and focusing resources on visa overstays, not serious criminals;

- During the height of family separation, Trump deprioritized prosecuting migrants with criminal histories to instead spend resources on separating families;

- While Trump poured resources into detaining asylum seekers, he also released nearly 58,184 noncitizens with criminal records, including 8,620 violent criminals and 306 murderers;

- ICE ended up (re)arresting nearly 11,000 noncitizens who entered under Trump and were convicted of non-immigration crimes, including rape and murder; and
Trump’s policies incentivized migrant criminals to enter, triggering a threefold increase in the number of convicted criminals attempting to cross the border illegally.

https://www.cato.org/blog/Trump-release ... um-seekers

Ceeboo, why would you vote for the guy who made it easier for murderers and rapists to enter the country? Because, that’s what you did before, and you’re vowing to do it again.

I read the Cato report. It is quite an eye opener. But it’s typical Trump — long on show and short on substance.

[Res Ipsa]

So now you're talking about the millions of immigrants that make this country great? I thought we were talking about the millions of illegal immigrants that have entered the country recently and illegally and unvetted.

They’re the same people, my friend.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

It's hard to discuss something/anything when there is a fundamental disagreement with facts, and the attendant gaslighting and ridicule that occurs when the blessed narrative isn't supported. Four years ago, many posters here were haranguing anyone that didn't automatically agree with the laptop/russian influence narrative and that turned out to be nonsense. Prior to that, there was the russiagate idiocy that turned out to be nonsense. No, there is no discussion here, only reinforcement of narrative, regardless of the facts, and ridicule to anyone questioning it. However, do whatever. Just don't expect anything but an echo chamber.

In a meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, former President Donald Trump allegedly stated, "I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job. I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off." This came amid a series of controversial interactions between members of Trump's 2016 presidential campaign and Russian officials. On June 9, 2016, senior campaign advisors Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort reportedly met with Russian representatives at Trump Tower to discuss potential interference in the 2016 election, in exchange for a future easing of U.S. sanctions on Russia. The FBI was aware of this meeting, which became publicly known only after Trump assumed office.

During his presidency, Trump reportedly sought assurances of loyalty from then-FBI Director James Comey and asked him to end the investigation into Michael Flynn, who was serving as National Security Advisor at the time. Comey declined both requests and continued the investigation into the Trump campaign's possible Russian connections. Shortly thereafter, it emerged that Roger Stone, a long-time Trump ally, was collaborating with hackers known as Guccifer 2.0, who were implicated in the hacking of Democratic National Committee (DNC) emails. Although both DNC and Republican National Committee (RNC) servers were breached, only the DNC emails were leaked to WikiLeaks. Trump controversially dismissed Comey one day before a meeting with Lavrov, during which he reportedly shared classified Israeli intelligence, potentially endangering Israeli agents.

Comey’s dismissal led to the appointment of Robert Mueller as Special Counsel to continue investigating Trump’s alleged ties to Russia. Despite attempts by Trump to dismiss Mueller, he faced resistance and ultimately did not proceed. Subsequently, evidence surfaced that Russia had targeted election infrastructure in all 50 states during the 2016 election. Reality Winner, a former intelligence specialist, leaked a classified document confirming Russian interference. Although Mueller cited significant links between Trump’s campaign and Russian interests, including the sharing of polling data, and detailed four counts of obstruction that Trump could potentially face, the investigation faced substantial resistance from then-Attorney General Bill Barr. Mueller’s findings, including indictments of several high-profile individuals like Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, and George Papadopoulos, recommended that Congress handle cases involving Trump’s inner circle. However, with partisan gridlock, the statute of limitations expired on many of these cases.

Later, Trump faced allegations of attempting to extort Ukraine by withholding military aid to pressure Ukraine into announcing an investigation into his political opponent, Joe Biden, during the 2020 election cycle. This act led to Trump's first impeachment, although he later dismissed witnesses who had testified against him, including Alexander Vindman and Gordon Sondland, and terminated Vindman’s brother in apparent retaliation.

At the 2018 Helsinki Summit, Trump met privately with Russian President Vladimir Putin, controversially siding with Russia over U.S. intelligence agencies regarding election interference claims. Without other U.S. officials present, the meeting left Americans with no record of what was discussed. Reports surfaced that Kushner attempted to establish private communication channels with Russian officials, despite facing issues obtaining security clearance.

While much remains unverified regarding Trump’s ties to Russia, there is speculation about potential foreign influence on his policies. Many believe that, if re-elected, Trump may adopt a stance more favorable to Russian interests, potentially at the cost of U.S. alliances and democratic values.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Tower_meeting

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/12/politics ... index.html

https://www.npr.org/2017/06/07/53192703 ... igation-go

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guccifer_2.0

https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics ... index.html

https://www.timesofisrael.com/horrified ... rump-leak/

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/p ... ussia.html

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/s ... -elections

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ng-lied-to

https://time.com/5610317/mueller-report ... breakdown/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/breakdo ... d=61219489

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1 ... AG-Garland

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/pub ... e-measures

https://democrats-intelligence.house.go ... stigation/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/07/politics ... index.html

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... dog-finds/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/interpr ... d=60374126

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/ ... ns-1108939

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/26/53029734 ... ith-russia

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... ed-n962221