Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[Moksha]

Smith also padded his magnum opus with KJV Bible content, not realising it was anachronistic, or perhaps he figured nobody would notice.

Yeah, right.

Regards,
MG

Can we assume that you doubt whether Joseph Smith added passages from the Bible to the Book of Mormon?

[MG 2.0]

In this very clear example the translation process obviously came down to Smith plagiarising the King James Bible, taking words from Paul’s mouth and reinserting them into the fictional Mormon’s mouth.

Let's see ... the alternative to concluding that Smith just borrowed/adapted sentences from a c. 1600 CE English translation of a text by Paul written in Greek in the 1st century CE and put it into the mouth of an alleged person in the 4th century CE (speaking goodness knows what language) is ... well, it seems to be no more than 'God may sometimes do some really weird and apparently pointless stuff''.

OK. Not for nothing is the person who puts that view forward called 'Mental Gymnast'. But may I suggest that 'Contortionist' might be more appropriate than 'Gymnast'?

One person’s “weird and pointless” may be God’s methodology for initiating and following through with the translation process. My guess is that whatever that process might entail you would have a problem with it.

The fact is, all we REALLY know is what Joseph Smith said.

Gift and power of God.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Yeah, right.

Regards,
MG

Can we assume that you doubt whether Joseph Smith added passages from the Bible to the Book of Mormon?

I don’t know whether he himself did it or if the Bible quotes came through another source. Or a composite of the two.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

Let's see ... the alternative to concluding that Smith just borrowed/adapted sentences from a c. 1600 CE English translation of a text by Paul written in Greek in the 1st century CE and put it into the mouth of an alleged person in the 4th century CE (speaking goodness knows what language) is ... well, it seems to be no more than 'God may sometimes do some really weird and apparently pointless stuff''.

OK. Not for nothing is the person who puts that view forward called 'Mental Gymnast'. But may I suggest that 'Contortionist' might be more appropriate than 'Gymnast'?

One person’s “weird and pointless” may be God’s methodology for initiating and following through with the translation process. My guess is that whatever that process might entail you would have a problem with it.

The fact is, all we REALLY know is what Joseph Smith said.

Gift and power of God.

That’s not all we really know. Because there’s hard evidence. The words Paul spoke, translated and recorded in the 1769 King James Bible are found coming out of Mormon’s mouth, verbatim, in a record supposedly etched onto gold plates 1,348 years earlier. That’s a clear and obvious example of Smith copying from the KJV Bible. But not only that, Smith copied KJV errors into the Book of Mormon. So specific errors of translation and writing made in 1,769 in the King James Bible appear, verbatim, in the Book of Mormon, a record supposedly etched onto gold plates 1,348 years earlier. Again, it’s clear and obvious what is going on here - Smith plagiarising.

Further reading:
https://cesletter.org/1769-kjv-errors/

[MG 2.0]

One person’s “weird and pointless” may be God’s methodology for initiating and following through with the translation process. My guess is that whatever that process might entail you would have a problem with it.

The fact is, all we REALLY know is what Joseph Smith said.

Gift and power of God.

That’s not all we really know. Because there’s hard evidence. The words Paul spoke, translated and recorded in the 1769 King James Bible are found coming out of Mormon’s mouth, verbatim, in a record supposedly etched onto gold plates 1,348 years earlier. That’s a clear and obvious example of Smith copying from the KJV Bible. But not only that, Smith copied KJV errors into the Book of Mormon. So specific errors of translation and writing made in 1,769 in the King James Bible appear, verbatim, in the Book of Mormon, a record supposedly etched onto gold plates 1,348 years earlier. Again, it’s clear and obvious what is going on here - Smith plagiarising.

Further reading:
https://cesletter.org/1769-kjv-errors/

Joseph’s mouth (correction). At least according to the scribes.

Makes a difference. Not that Mormon, along with others, may not have been involved in the process. I would expect that he was. God’s works have been done collaboratively according to Mormon doctrine.

Why not the Book of Mormon?

I come back, again and again, to the black and white view of the world and its workings that some seem to be locked into with no hope for escape…apparently(?).

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

That’s not all we really know. Because there’s hard evidence. The words Paul spoke, translated and recorded in the 1769 King James Bible are found coming out of Mormon’s mouth, verbatim, in a record supposedly etched onto gold plates 1,348 years earlier. That’s a clear and obvious example of Smith copying from the KJV Bible. But not only that, Smith copied KJV errors into the Book of Mormon. So specific errors of translation and writing made in 1,769 in the King James Bible appear, verbatim, in the Book of Mormon, a record supposedly etched onto gold plates 1,348 years earlier. Again, it’s clear and obvious what is going on here - Smith plagiarising.

Further reading:
https://cesletter.org/1769-kjv-errors/

Joseph’s mouth (correction). At least according to the scribes.

Makes a difference. Not that Mormon, along with others, may not have been involved in the process. I would expect that he was. God’s works have been done collaboratively according to Mormon doctrine.

Why not the Book of Mormon?

I come back, again and again, to the black and white view of the world and its workings that some seem to be locked into with no hope for escape…apparently(?).

Regards,
MG

You seem to be misunderstanding. I’ll try and explain a bit further. The quote from 1st Corinthians was supposedly written by Paul - so coming out of Paul’s mouth. The quote from Moroni is stated as being what Mormon supposedly said - so coming out of Mormon’s mouth. But clearly, Smith quoted the KJV Bible, verbatim, and simply put Paul’s words into Mormon’s mouth.

The other examples where content in the Book of Mormon contains mistakes that mirror mistakes made in the KJV Bible, adds to the pile. Smith plagiarised the KJV Bible.

I can see why certain people within Mormonism are shifting to a place where the Book of Mormon is seen as non historical. A sort of stepping stone to the position of “faithful fiction”. It’s definitely the way to go as it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny as a divinely delivered record of actual events and actual people.

If the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a couple of witness statements (see my signature), the worst evidence for the Book of Mormon is the book itself. It self-refutes.

[malkie]

...
You seem to be misunderstanding. I’ll try and explain a bit further. The quote from 1st Corinthians was supposedly written by Paul - so coming out of Paul’s mouth. The quote from Moroni is stated as being what Mormon supposedly said - so coming out of Mormon’s mouth. But clearly, Smith quoted the KJV Bible, verbatim, and simply put Paul’s words into Mormon’s mouth.

The other examples where content in the Book of Mormon contains mistakes that mirror mistakes made in the KJV Bible, adds to the pile. Smith plagiarised the KJV Bible.

I can see why certain people within Mormonism are shifting to a place where the Book of Mormon is seen as non historical. A sort of stepping stone to the position of “faithful fiction”. It’s definitely the way to go as it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny as a divinely delivered record of actual events and actual people.

If the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a couple of witness statements (see my signature), the worst evidence for the Book of Mormon is the book itself. It self-refutes.

Perhaps god made a few mistakes when he had Mormon say those things in the Book of Moroni. Then, to be consistent, he had Paul (with translators in between) cause the same mistakes to appear in the KJV Bible. And, before you ask, of course Mormon italicised some words, because reasons, so that the identical italics had to appear in the KJV.

Did you ever think of that, huh, IHQ?

Remember, god moves in mysterious ways.

[MG 2.0]

Joseph’s mouth (correction). At least according to the scribes.

Makes a difference. Not that Mormon, along with others, may not have been involved in the process. I would expect that he was. God’s works have been done collaboratively according to Mormon doctrine.

Why not the Book of Mormon?

I come back, again and again, to the black and white view of the world and its workings that some seem to be locked into with no hope for escape…apparently(?).

Regards,
MG

You seem to be misunderstanding. I’ll try and explain a bit further. The quote from 1st Corinthians was supposedly written by Paul - so coming out of Paul’s mouth. The quote from Moroni is stated as being what Mormon supposedly said - so coming out of Mormon’s mouth. But clearly, Smith quoted the KJV Bible, verbatim, and simply put Paul’s words into Mormon’s mouth.

The other examples where content in the Book of Mormon contains mistakes that mirror mistakes made in the KJV Bible, adds to the pile. Smith plagiarised the KJV Bible.

I can see why certain people within Mormonism are shifting to a place where the Book of Mormon is seen as non historical. A sort of stepping stone to the position of “faithful fiction”. It’s definitely the way to go as it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny as a divinely delivered record of actual events and actual people.

If the best evidence for the Book of Mormon is a couple of witness statements (see my signature), the worst evidence for the Book of Mormon is the book itself. It self-refutes.

I don’t think you’re understanding where I’m coming from in my last number of posts. I don’t want to go back and rehash what I’ve already spent some time thinking about and then putting ‘ink to paper’.

I completely understand what you’re saying. It’s just that…excuse me…I think you’re being too narrow minded.

Regards,
MG

[Moksha]

I come back, again and again, to the black and white view of the world and its workings that some seem to be locked into with no hope for escape…apparently(?).

Regards,
MG

They keep approaching things with the reasoning of men rather than the belief of Latter-day Saints. Blowing Scopolamine dust directly into their face might alter the direction of the conversation.

[I Have Questions]

I don’t think you’re understanding where I’m coming from in my last number of posts.

Inyoure right It is difficult to see what it is you’re saying.

I don’t want to go back and rehash what I’ve already spent some time thinking about and then putting ‘ink to paper’.

Well that’s unfortunately going to leave people with a misunderstanding about what you said.

I completely understand what you’re saying. It’s just that…excuse me…I think you’re being too narrow minded.

Regards,
MG

I don’t think noting obviously plagiarism is being narrow minded. When a Professor spots plagiarism in a students work, are they being narrow minded when they penalise the student for it? Should the Professor, instead of acknowledging and dealing with the obvious plagiarism, conjure up some convoluted imaginary way that some deity or other could have had a magical hand in it for a higher purpose? When you see the equation ‘2 + 2’ the answer is 4. The answer isn’t ‘724 because God’.

Now when I see:

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 KJV Probably the Apostle Paul speaking
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Moroni 7:45 Supposedly this is Mormon speaking
And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

I’m getting the answer 4. And then you take all the other examples of the Book of Mormon containing KHV Bible content, including mistakes that were made in the production of the book in 1769. Think about it, mistakes made by men in 1769 appear in a book that was supposedly written 1,348 years earlier. When I consider that, I don’t think ‘magic’. I see the rational, and reasonable, and obvious conclusion - Smith copied from the KJV Bible and deceptively pirtrayed it as ancient content.

Smith plagiarised the KJV Bible.
The Book of Mormon is not what it claims to be.
2+2 =4.