The Film Heretic Discusses The Fanny Alger Affair

[Fence Sitter]

I am curious; if scripturalcenter.org wants to argue that Smith was actually married to Fanny, why are they trying to cast doubt on whether or not they were having sex?

I always find it strange that the same people who defend the legitimacy of polygamy by Smith also try and distance him from actually having sex with his polygamous wives. And the same people have no problem with any other polygamous leader having children from multiple wives.

[dantana]

I am curious; if scripturalcenter.org wants to argue that Smith was actually married to Fanny, why are they trying to cast doubt on whether or not they were having sex?

I always find it strange that the same people who defend the legitimacy of polygamy by Smith also try and distance him from actually having sex with his polygamous wives. And the same people have no problem with any other polygamous leader having children from multiple wives.

And it's also the same people who have a problem with gods having sex in heaven, when it's pointed out to them that there could be no other reason for a god to have a harem up there.

[Rivendale]

I am curious; if scripturalcenter.org wants to argue that Smith was actually married to Fanny, why are they trying to cast doubt on whether or not they were having sex?

I always find it strange that the same people who defend the legitimacy of polygamy by Smith also try and distance him from actually having sex with his polygamous wives. And the same people have no problem with any other polygamous leader having children from multiple wives.

And it's also the same people who have a problem with gods having sex in heaven, when it's pointed out to them that there could be no other reason for a god to have a harem up there.

It gets even more uncomfortable when you consider Mormon God's interaction with Mary. Another under age person having her free will/moral agency tampered with.

[Fence Sitter]

It gets even more uncomfortable when you consider Mormon God's interaction with Mary. Another under age person having her free will/moral agency tampered with.

Why limit that to the Mormon God? Couldn't that apply to the Christian God in general?

[Rivendale]

It gets even more uncomfortable when you consider Mormon God's interaction with Mary. Another under age person having her free will/moral agency tampered with.

Why limit that to the Mormon God? Couldn't that apply to the Christian God in general?

Sure but Mormons are obsessed with keeping Joseph squeaky sham wow clean. They forgive subsequent profits as products of their time but Joseph can't be soiled. Many other Christian sects don't believe there was physical contact between Mary and Elohim. But Brigham Young went full throttle with the claim that it was purely physical.

[dantana]

And it's also the same people who have a problem with gods having sex in heaven, when it's pointed out to them that there could be no other reason for a god to have a harem up there.

It gets even more uncomfortable when you consider Mormon God's interaction with Mary. Another under age person having her free will/moral agency tampered with.

It's just nuts how OCD the god of Abraham has always been with sex related issues. He's got about thirteen and two thirds different mantras going on.

- If she can't keep herself covered, it's not the man's fault for sexually assaulting her.

- Don't kill the virgins. Take them home with you.

- If you're in a fight with a foe and your wife tries to help but accidentally grabs him by the Palmers, cut her hand off.

- Please don't have your way with these lords, take my daughters instead.

- Be careful not to get an eyeful of your dad passed out drunk, naked on the tent floor. He will curse you and your seed forever.

- Don't even think about thinking about the M thing. Maybe you possible could if you're married, but as long as you're not lusting after your wife while doing it.

- Spilling ones seed can get one struck dead.

- Every sperm is sacred.

- Missionary style only. No making love with the faces. No docking.

- If someone shows up with a blazing sabre and tells you to sex the house girl, do it. Then marry her. Or vice versa. Whatever is convenient.

[Moksha]

And of course, scripturecentral.org 'fact-checks' the movie.

...The film inaccurately implies that Joseph Smith had an affair with a 16 year-old named Fanny Alger, and that Smith’s revelation about plural marriage was merely a convenient way to get free sex. First, the current best historical evidence suggests Fanny was 18 at the time, not 16.3 Second, whether or not Fanny and Joseph had sex, or were caught being physically intimate in some way, is not clear from the historical record, even though they clearly had some sort of relationship. Third, and most importantly, the historical evidence strongly indicates that Fanny was married to Joseph Smith as a plural wife. This is, of course, a controversial matter and no one can historically prove or disprove whether Smith’s practice of plural marriage was directed by God. But the film—or, at the very least, Mr. Reed as a character—either overclaims or misstates some of the crucial details...

https://scripturecentral.org/blog/fact- ... bcc7b4b-en

The crucial details, for virtually everyone watching the movie, will be that Smith, aged at least 29, illegally engaged in bigamy and used the excuse of 'god told me to,' to have an affair with a teenager who was a servant in his home, behind his wife's back.

Oliver Cowdery, one of the Book of Mormon witnesses, described the event as the "...dirty, nasty, filthy scrape of his and Fanny Alger's..."

Makes you wonder why the Church abandoned the sealing power of a tumble on a haystack. Think of all the sealings the Church could have claimed in the backseat of the old Chevy.

[I Have Questions]

And of course, scripturecentral.org 'fact-checks' the movie.

...The film inaccurately implies that Joseph Smith had an affair with a 16 year-old named Fanny Alger, and that Smith’s revelation about plural marriage was merely a convenient way to get free sex. First, the current best historical evidence suggests Fanny was 18 at the time, not 16.3 Second, whether or not Fanny and Joseph had sex, or were caught being physically intimate in some way, is not clear from the historical record, even though they clearly had some sort of relationship. Third, and most importantly, the historical evidence strongly indicates that Fanny was married to Joseph Smith as a plural wife. This is, of course, a controversial matter and no one can historically prove or disprove whether Smith’s practice of plural marriage was directed by God. But the film—or, at the very least, Mr. Reed as a character—either overclaims or misstates some of the crucial details...

https://scripturecentral.org/blog/fact- ... bcc7b4b-en

The crucial details, for virtually everyone watching the movie, will be that Smith, aged at least 29, illegally engaged in bigamy and used the excuse of 'god told me to,' to have an affair with a teenager who was a servant in his home, behind his wife's back.

Oliver Cowdery, one of the Book of Mormon witnesses, described the event as the "...dirty, nasty, filthy scrape of his and Fanny Alger's..."

What kind of relationship does Scripture Central think people go into a barn to conduct?

Remind me, did Oliver Cowdrey ever recant his testimony about what he saw in the barn? Did he ever amend it to say he only saw Joseph and Fanny in the barn through spiritual eyes? Why is Cowdrey’s statement about Gold Plates and Translation more believable than his statement about Joseph and Fanny conducting a filthy affair in the barn? If Oliver Cowdrey is not to be trusted on one, then he’s not to be trusted on the other. Apologists do like to have it both ways don’t they…

[sock puppet]

And of course, scripturecentral.org 'fact-checks' the movie.

...The film inaccurately implies that Joseph Smith had an affair with a 16 year-old named Fanny Alger, and that Smith’s revelation about plural marriage was merely a convenient way to get free sex. First, the current best historical evidence suggests Fanny was 18 at the time, not 16.3 Second, whether or not Fanny and Joseph had sex, or were caught being physically intimate in some way, is not clear from the historical record, even though they clearly had some sort of relationship. Third, and most importantly, the historical evidence strongly indicates that Fanny was married to Joseph Smith as a plural wife. This is, of course, a controversial matter and no one can historically prove or disprove whether Smith’s practice of plural marriage was directed by God. But the film—or, at the very least, Mr. Reed as a character—either overclaims or misstates some of the crucial details...

https://scripturecentral.org/blog/fact- ... bcc7b4b-en

The crucial details, for virtually everyone watching the movie, will be that Smith, aged at least 29, illegally engaged in bigamy and used the excuse of 'god told me to,' to have an affair with a teenager who was a servant in his home, behind his wife's back.

Oliver Cowdery, one of the Book of Mormon witnesses, described the event as the "...dirty, nasty, filthy scrape of his and Fanny Alger's..."

Is that due to the LDS teaching of 'retroactive marriages'?

[Moksha]

It gets even more uncomfortable when you consider Mormon God's interaction with Mary. Another underage person has her free will/moral agency tampered with.

Sort of if the LDS God and Joseph both took on the attributes and exploits of Zeus as the Swan and Fanny Alger and Helen Marr Kimball becoming Leda.