Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

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Markk
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Markk »

As mentioned above, there is no "Protestant Church." There are many churches in Protestantism. Yes, many Christians in the 18th and 19th centuries believed that Christianity had lost something vital and was in need of a Restoration. Joseph Smith was one of those Christians.
Well, you are wrong. As I explained to a Protestant or Evangelical, the "Church" is Christ, the body of believers in Christ are the Church, Those immersed (baptized) into the body by the agency of the HS. You certainly don't have to believe that, but it is Protestant thought and doctrine. If you want to simply ask me, I'll walk you through the New Testament teaching on this. Whether it be the SBC, Calvary Chapel, 1st Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterian, Congregationalists....etc., we are all "Protestants," and members of one Church; The Body Christ. Again just ask and right or wrong, I'll walk you through the New Testament scripture that we interpret it to be.

Mormonism has different view of what a church is, a building and a corporation, or a name....you need to get away from that line of logic if you want to understand how others think, especially those you criticize ignorantly.

Joseph Smith, by his fruits, in my opinion and many others opinion was hardly a Christian. He was banging women behind his wives back, focus Kish, he was flat out cheating on Emma, period....stealing from his "flock," and doing so telling them all along they can become God's. If you believe that what Joseph was teaching, and his fruits were some how misunderstood....well you are probably on the wrong website, you should go to MAD. Are you really supporting that Joseph's theology was something lost and needed to be restored? Think about it.
I have very low expectations regarding how objective such a discussion is likely to be. It is not completely clear to me what, in each instance it appears in Joseph Smith's translations and revelations, the word church is supposed to refer to, especially in the Book of Mormon, which was composed before Joseph Smith founded a church.
Well, do you believe that Book of Mormon to be inspired, which begs, do you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. Again your posts are cryptic. Please give me a benchmark for your body of truth that you project. You are all over the place, yet no where.

In one breath you want to tell me what the definition of the protestant church is, which you you obviously have not done your homework on....and then in another, you don't know what the word church even means in regard to the faith you are defending. The Book of Mormon teaches that the Church of the Devil is the Abdominal church, which clearly compliments the First Vison Account....right? It is not that hard to see.

Also the Book of Mormon teaches only two churches, and the first being the Lamb of God....I think we can understand what Joseph Smith was asserting there, and the other being the Church of the Devil, is fairly easy to figure out....especially given the commentary by several LDS prophet/s, seer's and revelators that are pretty clear what Joseph Smith meant.
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Moksha
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Moksha »

Markk wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:05 am
Well, you are wrong.
I can see some crossover in the concepts of restoration and reformation, and a world of difference in what is preached by the Quaker Friends and hotheaded yahoos touting Trump in their Sunday sermons.
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Markk
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Markk »

Moksha wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:05 am
Markk wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:05 am
Well, you are wrong.
I can see some crossover in the concepts of restoration and reformation, and a world of difference in what is preached by the Quaker Friends and hotheaded yahoos touting Trump in their Sunday sermons.
Please do? Articulate on what you just wrote.

Thanks
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Moksha
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Moksha »

Markk wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:27 am
Moksha wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:05 am

I can see some crossover in the concepts of restoration and reformation, and a world of difference in what is preached by the Quaker Friends and hotheaded yahoos touting Trump in their Sunday sermons.
Please do? Articulate on what you just wrote.

Thanks
My hands hurt from arthritis. I was hoping you would have something to add.
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Markk
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Markk »

Moksha wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:36 am
Markk wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:27 am


Please do? Articulate on what you just wrote.

Thanks
My hands hurt from arthritis. I was hoping you would have something to add.
Well, I did add that I welcome you to expand on what you wrote Mosksha. Maybe you can tell me how Joseph Smith's restoration compares to the reformation...and tell me about this cross over, and just what the hot headed Trump Yahoos preach, and who they are as compared to the Quakers, I assume you can back up what you wrote.

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huckelberry
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by huckelberry »

Markk, moshka sometimes remains a bit obscure but I doubt he means anything more specific than some Protestants attack other Protestants. I see on You tube presentations of what churchs are bad and to be avoided. One presentation makes sense to me picking out folks I think dangerous while some other fellow criticises folks I have some sympathy for. In the 19th century there were big fights yes no on predestination. That figures large in Mormon rhetoric of the time. (of course a person could be one either side of that battle and still reject Joseph Smith)

I do not think Kishkumen is interested in the argument you wish to have with him. No point in taking that personally it is a matter of having very different interests I suspect.
Markk
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Markk »

huckelberry wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 6:06 am
Markk, moshka sometimes remains a bit obscure but I doubt he means anything more specific than some Protestants attack other Protestants. I see on You tube presentations of what churchs are bad and to be avoided. One presentation makes sense to me picking out folks I think dangerous while some other fellow criticises folks I have some sympathy for. In the 19th century there were big fights yes no on predestination. That figures large in Mormon rhetoric of the time. (of course a person could be one either side of that battle and still reject Joseph Smith)

I do not think Kishkumen is interested in the argument you wish to have with him. No point in taking that personally it is a matter of having very different interests I suspect.
Hi Huck

On the net you can find folks criticizing anything and everything, it is what we do, especially on forums like this. Social media has just made it in our face, podcasters are just "professional" criticizers, and those that listen allow it and apparently we need it to support our tribal instincts. And yes protestants criticize other protestants for sure. My point is, and criticism, is that in no way Mormonism.... Protestantism or Christian. I would love to see this crossover that moshka sees. I might argue yes, in the Book of Mormon by basic ideology, but after that Mormonism evolved into a wacked out cult by Smith teaching you can become a God (like the God of the Bible) if you have a bunch of wives.

"moshka sometimes remains a bit obscure"....lol nicely wrote. It is like when we say something stupid to a person and they say...."oh, that is a interesting idea."

Kish is just butt hurt because he said something stupid about the Tanner's and their research of Mormonism at it's roots. I am honestly trying to get him to open up about what he believes, at this point I think I believe he is a closet Mormon. Does it really matter, no, but I find it, lol "interesting." (no pun intended).

I don't take this crap personal at all. I am, lol, a construction manager my skin is as thick as a piece of jerky. I enjoy these discussions, I have fun with it, at least try to.

Take care.
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Moksha
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Moksha »

Markk wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:41 pm
I would love to see this crossover that moshka sees.
Mrakk, I also intended to note that Protestants are not a monolithic group and there is disagreement in the Body of Christ. I seem to remember an old religious joke punchline that went, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."
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Markk
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by Markk »

Moksha wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:32 pm
Markk wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:41 pm
I would love to see this crossover that moshka sees.
Mrakk, I also intended to note that Protestants are not a monolithic group and there is disagreement in the Body of Christ. I seem to remember an old religious joke punchline that went, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."
Okay expound on that, what are some of these examples Calvinism vs Arminianism is certainly at the top of my list. And is it Biblical, whether you believe or not the Bible is inspired, to have disagreement within the Body, in either essential or non essential teachings?

In regard to your assertion about restoration and reformation crossover, what are these, especially in regard to theology proper and who God is by nature and being, which in my opinion is the benchmark for any Christian faith? Do you believe that Joseph Smith was a inspired prophet?

What do you believe Moksha? Are you LDS, were you LDS, are you an atheist, agnostic, other?

Thanks
huckelberry
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Re: Cause of my Tanner Kerfuffle

Post by huckelberry »

Markk, thinking back some six months (perhaps more)the only LDS believers posting here are MG and Ajax. There a few Protestants of some variety, Msnobody, Jersey Girl, Physics Guy and Huckelberry. I think Ceeboo but I do not remember him discussing religious belief much. Other people are a variety of skeptical and probably do not wish to put themselves into a specific category.
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