How much?

[Dr Exiled]

Anything against the approved narrative is conveniently branded as Russian disinformation. Save us Joint Force. We aren't smart enough to see through the masturbation meme from 2016 and the like. He was too dismissive of the birds into Russia plan outlined above. Everywhere is RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION conveniently disguised as mere disagreement with the preferred narrative. Heeeeeellllllp!!!!!

by the way, here is the fact sheet put out by the DOD regarding the labs it helps through the BTRP: https://media.defense.gov/2022/Mar/11/2 ... KRAINE.PDF

It seems the DOD has invested $200,000,000.00 in 46 labs since 2005. However, they say it's peaceful and only has good intentions for good, not unlike those evil Russians that are always doing evil and lying all the time. Nothing to see there. Whew!

Thanks for the demonstration.

You're welcome.

So, where is the proof of all of this Russian control of the narrative other than that some people see things differently than Mr. Kelly and his fellow adherents? Seems like the firehose of supposed disinformation, or, in reality, disagreement, could be countered by having a population less reliant on leaders telling them what to think and more reliance on logical reasoning skills. Better speech counters bad speech. People are smart enough to see through bs. Isn't that what we learned from leaving Mormonism? Isn't that why most don't join despite all the missionaries? It's bs and people readily see it. Likewise, I am sure people can handle the truth and can see propaganda easier than you give credit.

Propaganda is nothing new. The piece you cite is part of it. Perhaps that's why the feigned surprise at how foreign governments like the Russians use propaganda. Didn't these idiots you quote realize how the Germans used it and how our own government has propagandized Europe and the World for as long as I can remember? Sure they did. Are you familiar with how Hearst got us to fight the Spanish? Propaganda has been around for probably Millenia and the only news is that the people are no longer automatically believing the McCarthyite fearmongering.

[honorentheos]

People are smart enough to see through bs.

Maybe, but when you doubled down on the bird virus claim I began to have serious doubts.

[subgenius]

I am predicting that the Trump administration's solution to the Ukraine issue will be to cut them loose and feed them to the wolves. The EU may stand up against Russia but it will make their energy costs **high**.

So the question becomes how much of eastern Europe are we willing to cede to Russian annexation before it becomes a problem?

what "problem" do you imagine?
And since when is Europe ours to cede?

[Gadianton]

You're just guessing,

True, but are you somehow not guessing? I'm taking the position Fiona took in the paper your source quoted from.

our elites' coveting Russian assets

example? you start losing me with these kinds of claims.

Why do you think we needed to meddle in the Ukrainian elections in 2014? Was that necessary? If they voted for a pro-Russia government, why did we care? Why do we need to meddle in almost every country that we can?

Well, this is just what "we've" done, whether it's right or wrong; and most likely wrong, I'm not going to reason that because we shouldn't have installed a dictatorship in Guatemala in the 50s that now is the time to quit supporting Ukraine. But, you do seem to be suggesting there is more than just NATO intimidation at play here. Assuming the strong view that I will accept for the sake of argument that the US significantly moved Ukraine toward a Western style government, it sounds to me like there's more for Putin to be cross about than NATO. Assuming Ukraine signed a paper saying they won't join NATO, we've still got the problem of America shafting his party and essentially taking over Ukraine politically and corrupting the entire country with Western consumerism. He's just letting that go?

I know this goes on deaf ears seemingly, but, if Russia and China meddled in our neck of the woods wouldn't we shout Monroe and take action?

Not really, we'd just let them go ahead and help get Putin's lapdog Donald Trump elected. Perhaps this is some deserved poetic justice for us? I could appreciate that point of view.

Whatever we say isn't gospel and this is the attitude that has infected our foreign policy since at least WWII. We should be looking for peace and not more provocation. I hope everyone here is against using our weapons and personnel to bomb Moscow. We shouldn't want to provoke WWIII.

Should I be as much against Ukraine bombing Moscow as you are against Putin bombing Kyiv? If so, then it seems like I should be perfectly fine with it. Or at least, I should understand why it happened and brush it off.

I don't want to provoke ww3, But I'm not sure there's going to be a away around provoking it whether it's with Russia, China, or North Korea. I think we need to assume that neither globalism nor isolationism are goods in themselves. I think we should approach both as avenues to do what's best for America, not the countries we're interfering with. I think that's the starting point. Is it better to fight proxy wars with expansionists mobsters, or let them have at our would-be allies and assume a multi-polar world will be in our best interests long term?

The problem with isolationist rhetoric is that it takes globalist rhetoric at face value. As a globalist, I'm bringing democracy to the world (except for those times I install dictatorships in South America), and it sounds so benevolent. So then the isolationist rises and says, "it's time to stop being so self-sacrificing and think about our problems here at home, not solving the world's problems!" But in reality, as a globalist, I'm meddling in world affairs only to benefit America and using "democracy" as a pretense. So if you look at it that way, then it becomes an apples-to-apples comparison. Arguing for isolationism needs to argue for why, in the long term not just the next 5 years, America benefits more by letting the axis of Putin and Xi go to town with their ambitions.

[Moksha]

And since when is Europe ours to cede?

Excellent point. The most I can see Trump providing is air support for Russian tanks and North Korean troops.

[¥akaSteelhead]

If we become increasingly insular, and ignore where the world is headed with green energy, China will happily step in and expand its ev and green tech into Europe, SA, and Africa; simultaneously expanding its political influence.

This isolationism seems to be the death knell for US hegemony.

[High Spy]

How much more are you willing to increase the deficit on Ukraine's behalf?

Great question. But first we need to know how much the deficit has increased in response to Ukraine so far. I'm sure that number is clear in your mind since you're so concerned about it. Would you please provide that number?

Likely 2028 the world will see insidious turmoil.

[Jersey Girl]

Great question. But first we need to know how much the deficit has increased in response to Ukraine so far. I'm sure that number is clear in your mind since you're so concerned about it. Would you please provide that number?

Likely 2028 the world will see insidious turmoil.

Hey. Pirate put a call out for you in Terrestrial. Scroll down the forum until you reach the bottom of the front page.

[ajax18]

But in reality, as a globalist, I'm meddling in world affairs only to benefit America and using "democracy"

I would argue that globalists and new world order believers like GWB actually believed they could set up democracy in Iraq. If GWB were putting America first he would have taken the oil in Iraq to make them pay what it cost the US taxpayer to get rid of Sadaam Hussein.

But meddling in world affairs only to benefit America is exactly what President Trump and the America first movement seeks to do. For those that think America first is selfish and want to fight this agenda at every turn, perhaps this is why we need a national divorce. We certainly don't need to remain a united country for the purpose of military strength and protecting our interests militarily at home or abroad as we once did. What we actually need is more sovereign states as the constitution intended. You'd be free to put your ideology into practice. You'd be free to import as much poverty from the third world as you like and as Veritas says, this will make you very rich. You'd also be free as the lone superpower to serve altruistically as the world's police force and then engage in nation building with the help of your 80% tax rates on the wealthy. Nobody would be there to stop you on the grounds that this isn't in the interest of American taxpayers. You'd just tell your constituents to shut up, pay up, or move to a red state. And if you persist in trying to implement this upon the working people of rural America who you despise, you're never going to win another national election no matter how much celebrity money you have, no matter what candidate you put up and no matter how you gerrymander the country. So if I were you I'd cut my losses and run while you still can and secede.

[Moksha]

Likely 2028 the world will see insidious turmoil.

As well as 2025, 2026, and 2027.